FED - Force Play Slide Rule

[ManInBlue]

If he slides toward the fielder, I've got INT. The rule states he must slide "directly into the base" - unless he's going away from the fielder.

concerning the OP - no in both cases.

[zm1283]

Is it correct to say the runner at second on a force has to get down or get out of the way? I had a runner today who stayed upright and ran into 2B as F4 was catching and throwing. The defense ended up turning the double play and the play at first was a banger. I was going to call interference on the runner coming to 2B since he didn't slide or get out of the base path.

Also, what mechanic would you guys use when that happens? Safe for the B/R at first, followed by calling him out for interference, or just go straight to the interference call?

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Also, what mechanic would you guys use when that happens? Safe for the B/R at first, followed by calling him out for interference, or just go straight to the interference call?

TIME! (hands up) That's Interference. (point) Out at second (hammer toward 2B) out at first (hammer toward 1B)

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Is it correct to say the runner at second on a force has to get down or get out of the way? I had a runner today who stayed upright and ran into 2B as F4 was catching and throwing. The defense ended up turning the double play and the play at first was a banger. I was going to call interference on the runner coming to 2B since he didn't slide or get out of the base path.

Also, what mechanic would you guys use when that happens? Safe for the B/R at first, followed by calling him out for interference, or just go straight to the interference call?

No FED 8.4.2.b2 " Runners are never required to slide, but if a runner elects to slide, the slide must be legal.

A runner can stay upright as long as he makes no attempt to alter the play.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jicecone

No FED 8.4.2.b2 " Runners are never required to slide, but if a runner elects to slide, the slide must be legal.

A runner can stay upright as long as he makes no attempt to alter the play.

I agree that's what the rule says, but I read it as "if he slides it must be legal; if he doesn't slide, he must run in a direction away from the play."

Again, this has been discussed many times, and no clarification from the FED (other than the one interp several years ago where R1 was "lesss than halfway" to second when he was hit by a throw.)

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree that's what the rule says, but I read it as "if he slides it must be legal; if he doesn't slide, he must run in a direction away from the play."

Again, this has been discussed many times, and no clarification from the FED (other than the one interp several years ago where R1 was "lesss than halfway" to second when he was hit by a throw.)

Bob, I didn't write the rule and I really don't care if the runner disappears in thin air, slides, runs the other way or maliciously contacts the fielder. If he slides, it better be legal, if not, he better not alter the play.

But, if you and others have a problem with the way the rule is written, then your problem is with NFHS, again I didn't write it.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jicecone

A runner can stay upright as long as he makes no attempt to alter the play.

Be careful here: the rule sets a much higher standard that what you suggest. The relevant rule for interference when a runner does not slide is 8-4-2(b):

Originally Posted by rule book

(Any runner is out for interference when he ...) does not legally slide and causes illegal contact and/or illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play

Here are 3 distinct standards:

1. Runner must make no attempt to alter the play.
2. Runner must attempt to avoid altering the play.
3. Runner must avoid altering the play.

The first two concern what the runner is trying to do. The rule says nothing about what the runner is trying to do. If he makes illegal contact or illegally alters the play, then he is guilty of interference, whether he was attempting to alter the play or attempting to avoid the fielder.

In other words, the third standard applies: he must successfully avoid altering the play.

Bob referred to the definition of an illegal slide. Here it is:

Originally Posted by rule book

ART. 2 . . . A slide is illegal if:
a. the runner uses a rolling, cross-body or pop-up slide into the fielder, or
b. the runner’s raised leg is higher than the fielder’s knee when the fielder is
in a standing position, or
c. the runner goes beyond the base and then makes contact with or alters the
play of the fielder, or
d. the runner slashes or kicks the fielder with either leg, or
e. the runner tries to injure the fielder, or
f. the runner, on a force play, does not slide on the ground and in a direct line
between the two bases.

Bob pointed out that clause (c) refers to making contact; clause (f) does not, nor does it even refer to altering the play.

[David B]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

If he slides toward the fielder, I've got INT. The rule states he must slide "directly into the base" - unless he's going away from the fielder.

concerning the OP - no in both cases.

That's what the OP is talking about. Be careful, there is intent written into the rule. Just because he slides toward the fielder a little and there is no alteration of play, no need to be calling a DP.

In order to get the DP, there should be alteration of the play. There are some very good threads on this topic in the archives, I could not get the link to work right, but it covers this extensively with all of the rules notated.

Thanks
David