Over ruling another umpire

[kylejt]

Guys,

I'm only working small diamond, and some Juniors. Sometimes when working the C, and hard hit ball to F6 will back me up, or even move me toward third. On close plays first, with F3 doing the splits, there's no way I've got an angle to see if F3 has his big toe on the bag or not. Why on earth wouldn't I ask, right away, to see if the PU saw the foot on the bag. It takes about 2 seconds. "Mike was he on the bag?", "Yes he was", "Out".

80' and 90' foot are a lot easier, you can actually see the base being deformed, because you're working inside and have the ability move toward the play. But in on a 60' field, and working the outside, you're often times pinched farther back than on the big fields.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but if I've got the plate, and there's a ball hit to the infield, with no runner on third, I'm busting down the line to see if F3 keeps his foot on the bag, and BR is in the lane. I'll get closer, set myself, and take in all the information. And I'll give my opinion when/if asked by the ruling umpire. What am I missing?

Kyle

[Tim C]

Again, I ask you to understand that this is NOT about what the PU does.

As a PU, with no one on, hopefully we all follow the B/R down the line and are in postion to help if asked.

Even though I have NEVER asked for help when I am the BU when working the dish I am ALWAYS in place to offer help if asked.

Again, to make things clear, I have never called a small diamond game and have no idea what issues you deal with . . . I did, howver, call a freind who is the leading Little League (I doubt if what he works is the trademark "Little League" as discussed on these boards).

Jon simply said to me, "Tee, as guys develop in our group they normally ask for help at times early in their career then as they learn they ask less and less!

"But make one thing clear . . . we encourage them to ask if they need help!"

So Kyle please understand something:

Both Jerry and I work "Big Boy" ball (even to the NCAA level) where our issues may be different. All we ask our partners is to work hard, get position, and make the call to the best of their ability.

[Jerry]

Tee,
AMEN! If there's any legacy we can leave to the rookies .. . . make a decision and go on with the game. Inbrain . . . YOU ARE GOD!. Whatever the coaches, players, spectators think . . . mean absolutely nothing! Make a judgement, rule call and go on with it! Period! And for God's sake . . . . love what you do!

Jerry

[chsbasebal]

As a High School coach, I find it impossible to get an umpire to ASK for help. Any suggestions?

[GarthB]

"As a High School coach, I find it impossible to get an umpire to ASK for help. Any suggestions?"

So many variables:

What are you asking him to get help for? Simple safe/out call? Fair/foul? Catch/no catch? You shouldn't get many umps to get help on these.

Rule application, rule interpretation? Ask nicely and almost all umps will agree to confer with their partner... privately. (Once they agree to confer, go sit down)

Pulled foot? Swipe tag? It's all in the asking. "GET SOME HELP BLUE!!!" just doesn't work.

"Excuse me ump, I know that was real close one and I noticed your partner was coming up the line to watch the play. Woould you mind seeing if he saw a pulled foot (swipe tag) on the play just in case you didn't have time to get to where you wanted to be on that? Thanks."

Even then, most umpires will only go for help before they make the call. And some know (by observing) that their partner did not have a good look for whatever reason. They are not going for help either.

One time I screwed up and left myself only a straight line view on a play at first that maybe did and maybe didn't pull F3 off. I went for help BEFORE I made the call.

In short, coach, umpires are not required to get help. Some will, some won't. "You pays your money, you takes your chances."(sic) You can increase you chances by picking those few times you ask very carefully and then asking nicely.


[Edited by GarthB on Jun 27th, 2002 at 12:55 AM]