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Fri Jun 07, 2002, 08:43am
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I'd like some imput. First of all, I'm a JV softball coach but I'm posting this question as a mother. LOL! Last night in a Dixie Youth Majors (11/12 yr. olds) game my son was ejected from the game for not sliding at home plate. It's not the call that I'm "concerned" with but the "manner" in which it was given. My son ran directly into the catcher who was at least half his size. It was a hard "hit" to a child that size, but thank goodness they were both fine. My son lost track of the ball and thought he had "time" and the catcher stepped up about the time Holden was running across the plate. Doesn't it have to be "malicious"? What deems "malicious"? The umpire kept "yelling" at least 3 times that the player is ejected. He was literally dancing behind home plate doing an "ejection" dance. I just wish that he would have called him out or ejected him without the theatrics. The other umpire said it was a bad call, but it was his call to make. After the game, he came over to my son and spoke with him. I appreciate that. What do you think of this? Thanks!
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Fri Jun 07, 2002, 08:57am
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You have two different questions here:
1) Was it the correct call? It sounds like it. There is no verbiage around the type of contact required, i.e. malicious or not. Rather the rule states that it is the runner's responsibility to slide or go around the tag. If he does not do that, he is ejected. The only thing I might have said to your son after the game was that he needs to always be aware of where the ball is to prevent this from happening again. Generally, if there is any doubt, coaches teach runners to always slide into home. BTW - Where was his coach during all of this? He should have been telling the boy to slide. 2) What about the theatrics? Sometimes you run into an umpire who thinks the game is about them and not about the kids. Sounds like this person took the opportunity to show off. It's obnoxious, but not illegal.
__________________
David A. Brand
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Fri Jun 07, 2002, 09:13am
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webster says "malice" is, "desire to cause injury or distress to another"
I'm not sure that the ejection was correct in this situation. The runner should clearly be called out for failure to avoid contact, but doesn't the contact have to be malicious for ejection? I wouldn't have tossed him unless I felt that he intentionally "plowed" over the catcher by throwing an elbow or lowering a shoulder.
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Fri Jun 07, 2002, 09:58am
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David,
Two different issues here. First should he have been called out? If the catcher made the tag, yes. If the catcher had the ball, and was waiting to make the tag, and the runner failed to slide or avoid contact, yes. Secondly, should he have been ejected? If the contact was deemed intentional, yes. If it was just a train wreck, probably not. Judgement call. Now, should the other umpire have said his partner made a bad call? Probably not. And should the BU have gone into theatrics on a player ejection? No. It was probably his first, and thought he needed to sell it. Lastly, and most importantly, what did your son learn? Have him always look at the catchers, or covering players, eyes when coming into a base. They'll tell you where the ball is, and what your next move should be. When in doubt, hit the deck. Kyle
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Fri Jun 07, 2002, 11:23am
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Brandda...Trust me, he has been taught to slide in those situations. He made a mistake. You asked where were his coaches...they were yelling right along with the other 80 or so people. (Who btw were all yelling different things
 )Thank you for your comments. Buckeye...That's exactly what most people were saying last night and this morning. (The phone has been ringing constantly around here) He definetly should have been called out. No argument there. He was trying to put the brakes on. It was just one of those bang bang situations. Ejected? I'm his mother and we as coaches all hate dealing with moms. It was the home umpire's call I guess. I just wish he would have done it differently. I'm left picking up the pieces. I guess that's what we moms are for! Kyle...Interesting points. The ball, the catcher and the runner pretty much all arrived at the same moment. I'm certain he should have been called out. You're right in that his partner should not have told the stands it was a bad call and the player should not have been ejected. But I think he was totally shocked by the homeplate umpires actions. It did not help that Holden was pitching an incredible game before ejection. (You can imagine the other teams reaction!) What did he learn...frankly it was a rough night around our house. He was pretty upset with himself and wondering why the umpire ejected him so forcefully. He learned a valuable lesson. TY for your helpful comments.
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Sat Jun 08, 2002, 06:55am
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Quote:
Was the ball waiting for Holden (between the catcher and Holden) when he got to the plate? Was Holden's intent to crash the Catcher? Sounds to me like Holden was out, not ejected, and there was only an incidental wreck. mick
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Sat Jun 08, 2002, 08:14am
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The penalty for a base runner not sliding or attempting
to get around a fielder in Dixie Youth baseball , is to call the runner out, not eject.The rule is 7.08m.
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Sat Jun 08, 2002, 01:01pm
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"My son lost track of the ball and thought he had "time" and the catcher stepped up about the time Holden was running across the plate." From this description (HTBT), it seems this was nothing more than a "train wreck". F2 was NOT blocking the plate, but rather had to make the catch and lunge at the runner. My call, "SAFE".
Since F2 did not have possession, and was not blocking the plate, NO ejection. To "showboat" when ejecting anyone, much less a youngster is BUSH. He watches TOO MUCH ML Baseball on TV. Bob
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Mon Jun 10, 2002, 01:33pm
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Recent rules notes from Williamsport
Our League President was just discussing this a couple of weeks ago. He mentioned that he had received a notice from LL Headquarters on this subject.
If I recall, they specified that a player must only slide/avoid if the fielder HAS possession of the ball at the time of contact. So, in this case the player would not have had to slide/avoid However, for purposes of ruling on interference, the usual "in the act of fielding" standard still applies. The runner could be out for interference if the ball was close enough to the catcher to be in the act. As for ejection, since the boy didn't have to slide/avoid the ruling should be train wreck and I don't see how any intentional contact could be called and therefore ejection is crazy. This is something that would be appealed in our league since ejection means automatic 1 game suspension. I would have called the boy out for interference and that's it.
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Mon Jun 10, 2002, 09:51pm
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I'd like to thank you all for helpful comments. To bring you up to date, the head of our league did talk with the umpire. He was unwilling to discuss his call. The league director happens to be head of the umpire association. Talk about conflict of interest...lol. He states it's entirely up to the PU to decide whether it's ejection or out or intentional or train wreak. It's a lost cause and I guess it's time to move on. Anyway, the good news is Holden went out tonight and threw a great game and gave us all a great laugh. I told him all day if he hit an over the fence homerun, I wanted him to slide into homeplate. Well, he just the missed the over the fence homerun, but he went 2 for 2 and slide in both times unnessarily. I was rather proud of the way he took all the "ribbing" tonight. Thanks y'all!
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Mon Jun 10, 2002, 10:20pm
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Wrong Lesson
Quote:
__________________
A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart, and can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the words. - Donna Robert
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Tue Jun 11, 2002, 06:10am
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Ump 20...Perhaps you've made a valid point. However, he knows the rules of the game and is a good fundamental player. In every post I agreed that Holden should have been called out. My comments were simply meant to put a smile on his face and encourage him in some way to get back out there. He was very hurt by the manner in which the ump ejected him out in the previous game and didn't understand why some person he didn't know was screaming over and over at him. At the time he was still trying to figure out what he'd done wrong. I'm a teacher, a coach and a parent. I try to find the right balance with all of my parenting decisions. It's easy to criticize the way other people raise their children isn't it? I think umpires have a tough job. I admire thier dedication to the sport. However, when their actions or the manner in which they conduct themselves demeen a child, I feel they should not be allowed to work with children at a younger age.
I appreciate your comments but thank goodness I don't have to agree with them.
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Tue Jun 11, 2002, 07:52am
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Toughest Job In The World
Quote:
I did not intend to draw any conclusions about your skills as a parent. I only meant to comment about the action of sliding when it wasn't needed. It may not be a big thing but it sounded like a bit of overkill. Umpires make mistakes. Some umpires have the demeanor of Atilla The Hun. These types brag about their "ejections", never looking at the possibility these arise out of their own characters and attitudes. If a child Holden's age actually "deserved" to be ejected it should have been done with no fanfare. If I umpire 100 games per year I probably average one ejection and sometimes even at that I think maybe I could have taken an action earlier that may have shown more game control and avoided a coach or player from ejecting themselves based upon their actions. My son just stopped playing baseball at the age of 28. I remember going to his games and my mere presence putting pressure on him. I learned very early to say nothing when he was hitting. When he was about 10 and didn't warm to my POST-GAME advice I decided it was time to coach. Parenting is a real tough job. Just like umpires we all make mistakes as parents. We simply do the best we can and support our children whenever they need it. Sounds as if you take that responsibility pretty seriously. Hopefully, Holden's ejection was his last and even if he wasn't "wrong" he learned from the expereince. - Jim
__________________
A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart, and can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the words. - Donna Robert
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