Gray Area Strikes

[DG]

Midway between belt and shoulders is considerably higher than top of the belt. I generally use the bottom of the elbows to define the top of the zone. The elbows are generally midway between belt and shoulders.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by DG

Midway between belt and shoulders is considerably higher than top of the belt. I generally use the bottom of the elbows to define the top of the zone. The elbows are generally midway between belt and shoulders.

Only if a batter is hitting improperly are his elbows that low.

You can't go by that.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by kylejt

I'm just saying that if you're calling strikes at two ball widths on the inside part of the dish, you may get more grief than you should. I've had really good instructors tell me to do so, but IMO, that's not a hittable pitch, and it's definitely not a strike.

But Bob and Kevin make good points. If your area wants that called, and you get less grief that way, roll with it.

I wouldn't go that far inside, though. I'm with you on that. It's unhittable at any level and cheats every hitter. You go a little away and it's still hittable.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

The first part's very true; you have to adjust if you do different levels.

The second part's somewhat true, but for the fact that the majority of guys who'll tell you that aren't interested in fairness, but in how soon they get to leave the ballpark that day.

I've done hundreds of high school varsity games (I know you're happy for me) I can't think of one regulation 7 inning game that was well over 2 hours that was any good. On the other hand I've had many 7 inning games that were well under 2 hours that were outstanding. Why. Quite simply strikes were called and the batters were swinging the bat.

I'm generous out and not so generous in. Up and down letters to the knees. Coaches can ***** about up and down that they can see. It's hard for them to see in and out.

If I'm the same for both teams I'm guessing I'm being fair.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I have seen some long barn-burners that were great, and some short, low-scoring games that sucked. I am not concerned with how long a game is except for game management concerns. I like everything about being out there and I'm in no rush to get home.

As for the zone, I think I'm with you, except for the high part, Gordon.

I guess I've never been able to go up to the pit of the stomach (which is the midpoint between the top of the shoulder and the top of the uniform pants, no matter where the letters are). I suppose getting trimmed for calling it too often by the better coaches and hitters shaped my zone a little. Also, it's the pitch you get the best look at. It's easier to keep that line at the top than at the bottom.

Now, occasionally a high big bender gets called.

[Ump153]

For the top, I use one ball above the belt, no matter how it got there, fastball or deuce. With good pitching skippers see where the ball ends up more than where it hit the plate. Haven't had many complaints about it College or HS Varsity.

[Kevin Finnerty]

If there's somewhere I would go to stretch out my zone, I would go daylight between ball and belt first, so that sounds a lot like where I would end up when I'm done stretching.

[DG]

The bottom of a batters elbows are generally midway between belt and shoulders, in a normal stance, or at rest. If you guys are not calling a strike unless it nicks the belt or is no more than a ball above you are not calling the high strike and cheating the defense. Stand in front of a mirror, spread your hand as wide as you can and touch the top of your belt with your middle fingertip. The top of your thumb will be appoximately same as bottom of your elbows. Call the hand and you will be calling the high strike. The hand will be at least two balls and close to three, above the belt.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by SAump

Would you go two balls inside or outside, if you were pitching?

Yes, I would.

I'd go there, but I wouldn't expect it to be a strike. I'd WANT it be a strike, though.

Good thing I don't pitch AND umpire at the same time. I'd probably yell at, and then eject myself several times a game.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I wouldn't go that far inside, though. I'm with you on that. It's unhittable at any level and cheats every hitter. You go a little away and it's still hittable.

Here's the problem with the inside pitch it has become fashionable at

all levels for batters to crowd the plate. I got to believe it started at the "show" because "pitchers aren't allowed" to pitch inside. The first time it happens (it seems to be the case) both benches are warned. Nothing I enjoy more than getting a called third on a batter whose arms are over the plate. The only thing that can top that is calling a strike when a batter gets hit by a pitch because he's all over the plate.

Quit being sympathetic to the hitter. How many times do they let the mediocre belt high fastball go by and then get pissed off at you when you ring them up on a called third.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by DG

The bottom of a batters elbows are generally midway between belt and shoulders, in a normal stance, or at rest. If you guys are not calling a strike unless it nicks the belt or is no more than a ball above you are not calling the high strike and cheating the defense. Stand in front of a mirror, spread your hand as wide as you can and touch the top of your belt with your middle fingertip. The top of your thumb will be appoximately same as bottom of your elbows. Call the hand and you will be calling the high strike. The hand will be at least two balls and close to three, above the belt.

Three balls above the belt is too high, and I must repeat, only if a hitter's hands are too low to hit properly are they at the midpoint that is the top of the strike zone. A majority of hitters' elbows are not held that low.

I'm going to raise the top of my zone this year, but the top point will be the pit of the stomach or slightly below. Some uniforms have a logo that creeps down that far, some uniforms have a number in the perfect spot, some uniforms have a button in the right spot. But if a hitter's hands are in proper hitting position, his elbows are too high to use.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by SAump

Play the angle from the plate to the mitt.
These big MVP guys deserve a bigger strike zone.
Built in up/down belt to knees, but stagnant 17 inches left/right.
Who remembers a shorter MLB hitter with more HR than Kirby Puckett?
Bet Mr Puckett's wingspan was much larger than his height for a person his size.
Hitters drop back-end lower into a cut and explode upward belt high {Bagwell}, a built in advantage.
Add Albert Pujols in a crouch and see how much his strike zone changes during a swing.
Bet a dollar it doesn't change very much when he's looking at the pitch go by.
Take the average of 1000 knees to belt shots of him swinging at a pitch in the strike zone.
The strike zone on a 5-5 ft adult wingspan really can't differ as much vertical or horizontally.
Explosive MLB hitters swing at these pitches. Shouldn't they be called a strike when they don't swing?

Two balls off the plate??

You are dreaming. Horse---- MLB hitters swing at those pitches. Or Vladi, who can't possibly be used in any conversation about conventional hitting. Vladi is the only true bad ball hitter in baseball that has gone that far out of the zone successfully since the '70s. It's not the general rule like you're saying. ... Kirby's wingspan was not different than a normal short guy. He was very strong. Another short guy with a lot of bombs: Jimmy Wynn--also very strong and the rare guy with a season of 140-plus walks and 140-plus strikeouts ... And just because a bad hitter like Ryan Howard would swing at a pitch two balls off the plate is not a good reason to call it a strike on a brilliant hitter like Mark Teixiera.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by Ump153

For the top, I use one ball above the belt, no matter how it got there, fastball or deuce. With good pitching skippers see where the ball ends up more than where it hit the plate. Haven't had many complaints about it College or HS Varsity.

Dude or missing like about 5" of the strike zone... I worked with a guy in college like this and yea he didnt get alot of complaints, but he still missed alot of strikes..

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by DG

The bottom of a batters elbows are generally midway between belt and shoulders, in a normal stance, or at rest. If you guys are not calling a strike unless it nicks the belt or is no more than a ball above you are not calling the high strike and cheating the defense. Stand in front of a mirror, spread your hand as wide as you can and touch the top of your belt with your middle fingertip. The top of your thumb will be appoximately same as bottom of your elbows. Call the hand and you will be calling the high strike. The hand will be at least two balls and close to three, above the belt.

I agree 100%

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by SAump

You said it yourself in all the "everyone agrees with KF threads" that one ball off either corner is a strike. If you can't tell the difference between a For-You-Coach and a strike, I suppose there is no gray area strike left to discuss. Three balls in any direction would be too much.

Now I ask you to accept another ball off either side and it is suddenly impossible and unfair to the MLB hitter? I thought this thread was about the "gray area" found near the strike zone. I didn't realize it only pertained to the top and bottom quarters. As previously discussed in the KF threads prior to this, I'll continue stealing those pitches on the sides of my game.

Good luck,

What does most of this post mean? What are you referring to?

How did you make that leap from one ball off the corner, outside only, if it's caught right? With all due respect, you have gone way off course and you are not accurate in your recalling of what was said previously. You claimed that MLB hitters swing at pitches two balls off the plate and that it should be called at that level. I addressed it. They don't swing at that pitch routinely and it should not be called a strike.

I can't go two balls off the plate on either side under any circumstances. It's unfair.

And other than Jimmy Wynn, Rickey Henderson was another short guy that had more homers than Puckett, but he played twice as long. And I hate to admit it, but the very small Joe Morgan also had more and played twice as long.