Missed Home

[Blue37]

Safe in A - Unrelaxed
Out in B - Relaxed

[Ump153]

A: unknown. In his "scramble" did the runner touch the plate?

B: Out.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by Ump153

A: unknown. In his "scramble" did the runner touch the plate?

B: Out.

not in the question.....it was he said "i'm appealing" so he touch home plate not the runner..

[SAump]

I think their trying to tell you the tag must be applied.

Unrelaxed action means play is still in progress
Relaxed action, unrelaxed action has come to an end {no baserunning or play in progress}.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

not in the question.....it was he said "i'm appealing" so he touch home plate not the runner..

From what information you've made available, runner in A, if he touched the plate would be safe. It would be unrelaxed action and F2 needed to tag him.

In "B", we have relaxed action and the runner would be out on the appeal.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by Ump153

From what information you've made available, runner in A, if he touched the plate would be safe. It would be unrelaxed action and F2 needed to tag him.

In "B", we have relaxed action and the runner would be out on the appeal.

read the OP.... F2 said Im appealing then threw the ball to 2nd to stop the advancing BR.....

[Umpmazza]

ok here is the answer...

In (a), R2 is not out and the run counts. F2 would have had to tag him for the appeal. In (b), it is an appeal play and R2 is out since he left the plate area heading for the dugout. The runner has to make an Immediate effort to return, of course this is a judgment call.

[SanDiegoSteve]

So....you already knew the answer, but asked everyone just to see who else did? Why? Is there going to be a quiz later on or something?

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

ok here is the answer...

In (a), R2 is not out and the run counts. F2 would have had to tag him for the appeal. In (b), it is an appeal play and R2 is out since he left the plate area heading for the dugout. The runner has to make an Immediate effort to return, of course this is a judgment call.

So, everyone gave you the correct answer, you had no clue as to why they were correct, (as disclosed by your question regarding relaxed and unrelaxed action), and then you repeated their answers in an attempt to demonstrate that even if you didn't know why they were correct, you knew they were correct.

Strange game.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by Blue37

Safe in A - Unrelaxed
Out in B - Relaxed

what in the heck do you mean Unrelaxed or relaxed? what is the hell does that mean.

[PeteBooth]

Relaxed / Un-Relaxed action are terms used by the authorities ie; Evans / Roder to explain when an appeal will be acknowldeged.

Generally speaking when action is "un-relaxed" meaning runner scrambling back etc. the umpire will not honor any sort of an appeal and the runner MUST be tagged in order to record the out.

When action is relaxed meaning action is stopped etc. then the umpire will recognize the appeal.

Example: Ground ball to F4 who throws to F3. B1 beats the play but does not touch first base. B1 is some 10-12 ft passed the bag and F3 steps on first and says "Blue B1 missed the bag" - Umpire will make the ruling in this case out.

Same as above EXCEPT B1 after passing first base immediately scrambles back (action = un-relaxed). In that instance B1 must be tagged in order to get the out.

Therefore, in your play when R3 was scrambling back to touch home plate an appeal will NOT be honored.

Further clarification of "heading back to the dug-out" is needed but generally speaking in that case all F2 needs to do is step on the plate an make the appeal. You cannot expect F2 to chase after R3.

In summary the terms relaxed / un-relaxed are not in the rule-book but used by authorities to help explain the appeal rules.

Pete Booth

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Example: Ground ball to F4 who throws to F3. B1 beats the play but does not touch first base. B1 is some 10-12 ft passed the bag and F3 steps on first and says "Blue B1 missed the bag" - Umpire will make the ruling in this case out.

Same as above EXCEPT B1 after passing first base immediately scrambles back (action = un-relaxed). In that instance B1 must be tagged in order to get the out.

Why would a tag have to be made on your second situation? The runner missed the bag, so touching the bag would make him out, regardless if he's running back to touch it or not, right?

If I'm wrong, I'd love to see some references to this.

[PeteBooth]

On a play where B1 beats the throw to first base but does NOT touch the base, the proper mechanic is for the umpire to signal safe.

At one time in FED ONLY an "accidental appeal" was allowed. That is NOT the case anymore.

Therefore, if B1 beats the throw and missed first base, F3 MUST tag B1 to get the out provided the action is un-relaxed ie: B1 immediately turns around to touch the base.


Pete Booth

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

On a play where B1 beats the throw to first base but does NOT touch the base, the proper mechanic is for the umpire to signal safe.

At one time in FED ONLY an "accidental appeal" was allowed. That is NOT the case anymore.

Therefore, if B1 beats the throw and missed first base, F3 MUST tag B1 to get the out provided the action is un-relaxed ie: B1 immediately turns around to touch the base.


Pete Booth

How can B1 beat the throw to 1st base if he doesn't touch it? Isn't that HOW he beats the throw is by touching 1st?

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

How can B1 beat the throw to 1st base if he doesn't touch it? Isn't that HOW he beats the throw is by touching 1st?

When he passes a base, he is considered to be "at" that base.