Run Down Mechanics

[njdevs00cup]

R3 and R1 1out. F2 throws to pick R3 off. R3 gets in a run down. Does BU stay in the working area and make calls going back to 3B and the PU stay home?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

R3 and R1 1out. F2 throws to pick R3 off. R3 gets in a run down. Does BU stay in the working area and make calls going back to 3B and the PU stay home?

Yes.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

R3 and R1 1out. F2 throws to pick R3 off. R3 gets in a run down. Does BU stay in the working area and make calls going back to 3B and the PU stay home?

No.

BU will take responsiblity for the third base half only until PU gets into position to take it all. PU will say, "I've got it all" and BU will bounce back to take responsibility for R1. Should R1 make it to second without a play and the rundown continues, BU will bounce back to take the third base half of the rundown again.

Also, should R3 make it safely back to third before R1 does anything, BU will assume responsibility for him again and PU will beat feat for home.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

No.

BU will take responsiblity for the third base half only until PU gets into position to take it all.

This is exactly what I was told this weekend (which challenged what I was taught which was PU is to stay home).

When you say the PU needs to get into position, where would that be? I'm guessing the position is much closer to the plate, rather than half way up the line.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

No.

BU will take responsiblity for the third base half only until PU gets into position to take it all. PU will say, "I've got it all" and BU will bounce back to take responsibility for R1. Should R1 make it to second without a play and the rundown continues, BU will bounce back to take the third base half of the rundown again.

Also, should R3 make it safely back to third before R1 does anything, BU will assume responsibility for him again and PU will beat feat for home.

Does this scenario change if R1 remains at 1B?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Does this scenario change if R1 remains at 1B?

You won't know if R1 is staying at first until the rundown is over. As long as he is there PU has the rundown...all of it, once he gets in position:

Foul territory about half way between third and home to begin with and then adjust as necessary to see a play.

i don't have my Red Book with me, but this is the mechanic a New York Penn umpire told me that PBUC wants to see.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

i don't have my Red Book with me, but this is the mechanic a New York Penn umpire told me that PBUC wants to see.

Yes, that is the red book mechanic.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

This is exactly what I was told this weekend (which challenged what I was taught which was PU is to stay home).

When you say the PU needs to get into position, where would that be? I'm guessing the position is much closer to the plate, rather than half way up the line.

The position is wherever you need to be in order to cover the entire rundown. If the rundown ends at 3B, you would likely be a lot closer to 3B than you would to the plate.

[SAump]

I'll be the first to admit I am wrong, but wasn't the position for PU inside fair territory up/down the line recommended for watching possible obstruction or interference on a rundown?

[Nigel Tufnel]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

The position is wherever you need to be in order to cover the entire rundown. If the rundown ends at 3B, you would likely be a lot closer to 3B than you would to the plate.

This is essential to cover in a pre-game..
If I were PU, I would say that I cover the whole rundown, and only make eye contact with my parter if I was not sure of a tag going away from me at third...waiting for a safe or out mechanic...
BU has to be in position in the working area to see the play going back to third, or swipe tag..but also to be ready for a throw across the diamond..

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes.

I stand corrected. I read the play as R1 being in the rundown. I agree with the other posters on the mechanic.

[PeteBooth]

I agree - Cover in Pre- Game. but the BU in the working area can get a good angle of both R1 and R3 (if he slides back to third) so I do not agree that the PU "getting in position" should take the entire run-down because the PU would have to "commit" to third base and get into position to see the swipe tag and be able to determine if R3's hand got in ahead of the tag.

If R3 decides to "dart home" then the PU would be moving and it's not a good idea to make calls "on the move" as we are supposed to be planted.

FWIW and what makes it easier on both the BU and PU is that the BU obsviously has R1 and also R3 going back to third base. From the working area IMO he has a good angle to see both without too much trouble.

This type of run-down situation is no different than the BU with men on first / second base taking both the call at first base then the call at third base should R2 try and advance.

In addiition the PU also has the batter to account for should the batter interfere with F2's ability to apply the tag.

At best the PU should be about halfway up the third base line but I would not recommend going any further. With that being said the PU would not have an optimal angle to see the swipe tag at third base or did the runner get his hands on the bag before the tag was applied UNLESS he was basically committed to third base which could put the PU at risk should the ball get away or R3 dart home.

This is one of the drawbacks of the 2 person system.

Pete Booth

[bobbybanaduck]

So, your answer is....according to Pete, the PU should only take half of it. According to the manual, the PU takes it all.

[PeteBooth]

No matter what profession you are in there are ALWAYS manuals, however, you now taylor those manuals to fit your needs or the needs of your partner.

There are variations between groups meaning PRO mechanics/ FED mechanics CCA mechanics etc. All have their own nuances and all have evolved over time.

In Summary what's written in the manual TODAY might be replaced latter on with a different point of view.

I was merely poinitng out a different alternative because no matter "how you cut the cake" there are drawbacks in the 2 person system and this type of OP is one of them.

Pete Booth

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

I was merely poinitng out a different alternative because no matter "how you cut the cake" there are drawbacks in the 2 person system and this type of OP is one of them.

Pete Booth

Sorry, Pete. Your alternative provides too many opportunties for missed plays. The correct mechanic takes into account the drawbacks of two man mechanics provides far better coverage off both runners at three bases and home.

At best, your "different alternative" (BTW aren't alternatives "different" by definition"?) is patchwork umpiring.