Run Down Mechanics

[PeteBooth]

I agree - Cover in Pre- Game. but the BU in the working area can get a good angle of both R1 and R3 (if he slides back to third) so I do not agree that the PU "getting in position" should take the entire run-down because the PU would have to "commit" to third base and get into position to see the swipe tag and be able to determine if R3's hand got in ahead of the tag.

If R3 decides to "dart home" then the PU would be moving and it's not a good idea to make calls "on the move" as we are supposed to be planted.

FWIW and what makes it easier on both the BU and PU is that the BU obsviously has R1 and also R3 going back to third base. From the working area IMO he has a good angle to see both without too much trouble.

This type of run-down situation is no different than the BU with men on first / second base taking both the call at first base then the call at third base should R2 try and advance.

In addiition the PU also has the batter to account for should the batter interfere with F2's ability to apply the tag.

At best the PU should be about halfway up the third base line but I would not recommend going any further. With that being said the PU would not have an optimal angle to see the swipe tag at third base or did the runner get his hands on the bag before the tag was applied UNLESS he was basically committed to third base which could put the PU at risk should the ball get away or R3 dart home.

This is one of the drawbacks of the 2 person system.

Pete Booth

[bobbybanaduck]

So, your answer is....according to Pete, the PU should only take half of it. According to the manual, the PU takes it all.

[PeteBooth]

No matter what profession you are in there are ALWAYS manuals, however, you now taylor those manuals to fit your needs or the needs of your partner.

There are variations between groups meaning PRO mechanics/ FED mechanics CCA mechanics etc. All have their own nuances and all have evolved over time.

In Summary what's written in the manual TODAY might be replaced latter on with a different point of view.

I was merely poinitng out a different alternative because no matter "how you cut the cake" there are drawbacks in the 2 person system and this type of OP is one of them.

Pete Booth

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

I was merely poinitng out a different alternative because no matter "how you cut the cake" there are drawbacks in the 2 person system and this type of OP is one of them.

Pete Booth

Sorry, Pete. Your alternative provides too many opportunties for missed plays. The correct mechanic takes into account the drawbacks of two man mechanics provides far better coverage off both runners at three bases and home.

At best, your "different alternative" (BTW aren't alternatives "different" by definition"?) is patchwork umpiring.

[DG]

I would have bet a small sum that PU stays home on this situation. But I have a redbook and it says PU takes it all.

This is not something I have gone over in pre-game, and in fact don't happen very often. I tend to discuss stuff that comes up a lot in pre-game.

[David B]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Sorry, Pete. Your alternative provides too many opportunties for missed plays. The correct mechanic takes into account the drawbacks of two man mechanics provides far better coverage off both runners at three bases and home.

At best, your "different alternative" (BTW aren't alternatives "different" by definition"?) is patchwork umpiring.

Its easy to try and dismiss what Pete is saying because of what's is written in the book, but in reality the PU cannot make the call if R3 decides to return to 3rd diving back. Especially if he dives on the foul side of the bag.

Now if there are a couple of throws and PU has time to move into better position, (which is usually the case), but when R3 gets in rundown and on first throw back to F2 heads back to 3rd, then I've seen this play missed many times by the PU.

We've discussed this many times with different opinions, but if I'm PU, I want U2 watching the play at third.

Very unusual to see a quick throw to 2nd on this play,

At least that's the way I've seen it and have covered it with no problems.

thanks
David

[SAump]

BU better be nimble, better be quick, better not leave there looking like a prick.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by David B

Its easy to try and dismiss what Pete is saying because of what's is written in the book, but in reality the PU cannot make the call if R3 decides to return to 3rd diving back. Especially if he dives on the foul side of the bag.

Now if there are a couple of throws and PU has time to move into better position, (which is usually the case), but when R3 gets in rundown and on first throw back to F2 heads back to 3rd, then I've seen this play missed many times by the PU.

We've discussed this many times with different opinions, but if I'm PU, I want U2 watching the play at third.

Very unusual to see a quick throw to 2nd on this play,

At least that's the way I've seen it and have covered it with no problems.

thanks
David

David,

There are inconsistencies in your post and what the manual dictates. It sounds like you are concerned with R3 going back into 3B before the Pu has had ample to time to get into position. In this case, the BU would still have the play there. The PU does not have it all until he has it all...meaning he does not communicate to his partner, "I've got it all!" until he has moved into such a postion so as he CAN have it all. (The PU should be moving in the direction of 3B and should communicate to the BU that he has it all when he has gotten into position AND the runner has turned to head back toward home.) The first play, or any subsequent plays, on R3 into 3B belong to the BU until that responsibility is taken over by the PU.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by David B

Its easy to try and dismiss what Pete is saying because of what's is written in the book, but in reality the PU cannot make the call if R3 decides to return to 3rd diving back. Especially if he dives on the foul side of the bag.

Now if there are a couple of throws and PU has time to move into better position, (which is usually the case), but when R3 gets in rundown and on first throw back to F2 heads back to 3rd, then I've seen this play missed many times by the PU.

We've discussed this many times with different opinions, but if I'm PU, I want U2 watching the play at third.

Very unusual to see a quick throw to 2nd on this play,

At least that's the way I've seen it and have covered it with no problems.

thanks
David

You seem to forget that the BU takes the third base half until PU gets into position to take it all, thus rendering your initial argument moot.