FED change -shaking off the sign

[umpjim]

Just got my 2009 NFHS Baseball Case book. 6.1.2.D has changed:

"F1, while on the pitcher's plate in either the windup or set position, (a) adjusts his cap or (b) shakes off the signal with his glove, or (c) shakes off the signal with his head. RULING: In (a) through (c), these are legal actions if these movements of the arms and legs are not associated with the pitch."

My only caveat would be that there are some other arm and or leg movements not associated with the pitch that could be illegal feints.

[kylejt]

A. Were there really FED umpires calling balks on this? (Apparently so). That's awful, guys.

B. Why are there FED rules? I mean, high school kids may need a shock collar now and then, but not a whole different set of baseball rules. How did this originate?

[David B]

Originally Posted by kylejt

A. Were there really FED umpires calling balks on this? (Apparently so). That's awful, guys.

B. Why are there FED rules? I mean, high school kids may need a shock collar now and then, but not a whole different set of baseball rules. How did this originate?

Probably a good clarification so that some of the guys won't be calling this type of action a balk.

I don't know of anyone who has called this a balk for a while, but it was in the books.

Thanks
DAvid

[JJ]

There are FED rules because it IS a different game. Their athletes are not all baseball players, and all their baseball players are not athletes. They are still growing, physically and emotionally. They do not handle failure and success in the same way older, more mature players do.

High School parents and administrations are worried about injury as well as litigation, yet still want students to have the opportunity to participate.

Fields, equipment, coaches, and trainers are not of the same caliber as higher levels of ball.

Some baseball rules need more clarification, refinement, and explanation at the FED level - for players, coaches, fans, AND umpires.

I'd love to have one set of rules for EVERY level of ball, but it will never happen, and should never happen.

JJ

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by kylejt

A. Were there really FED umpires calling balks on this? (Apparently so). That's awful, guys.

Kyle,

At our State umpire camp, guys were dinged on their evaluation for not calling the first two, as well as the gorilla arm. It was stressed by the instructors that they expected it to be called in the camp, as well as in the coming season. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just sayin'......

[umpjim]

David B., it's more of a reversal than a clarification. The same 2008 number in the casebook had (a) and (b) as a balk. I guess nobody told Umpduck's instructors of the reversal.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by umpjim

David B., it's more of a reversal than a clarification. The same 2008 number in the casebook had (a) and (b) as a balk. I guess nobody told Umpduck's instructors of the reversal.

Our camp was in June. Was the change published before then ? Perhaps that's why we were instructed as we were.

[umpjim]

I just got the casebook this week. I think it was just printed. When it was decided to change the wording I don't know. I just scanned it for the changed or added plays while I was, ugh, never mind.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by JJ

There are FED rules because it IS a different game. Their athletes are not all baseball players, and all their baseball players are not athletes. They are still growing, physically and emotionally. They do not handle failure and success in the same way older, more mature players do.

High School parents and administrations are worried about injury as well as litigation, yet still want students to have the opportunity to participate.

Fields, equipment, coaches, and trainers are not of the same caliber as higher levels of ball.

Some baseball rules need more clarification, refinement, and explanation at the FED level - for players, coaches, fans, AND umpires.

I'd love to have one set of rules for EVERY level of ball, but it will never happen, and should never happen.

JJ

It has always bugged me that PONY and other youth leagues don't base their rules on a variation of FED rules rather than a variation of OBR.

High school is the highest level of ball that most of these guys will ever play and they have to learn them for the first time when they get there. It's BS. Most of them never really learn them.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JJ

There are FED rules because it IS a different game. Their athletes are not all baseball players, and all their baseball players are not athletes. They are still growing, physically and emotionally. They do not handle failure and success in the same way older, more mature players do.

High School parents and administrations are worried about injury as well as litigation, yet still want students to have the opportunity to participate.

Fields, equipment, coaches, and trainers are not of the same caliber as higher levels of ball.

Some baseball rules need more clarification, refinement, and explanation at the FED level - for players, coaches, fans, AND umpires.

I'd love to have one set of rules for EVERY level of ball, but it will never happen, and should never happen.

JJ

I have to disagree. If it is such a different game, then tell me why Colt and Palamino leagues are so successful, while using the same group of ball players from the local JV and Varsity squads. Why do travel and wood bat leagues for 16U through 18 level thrive using the same talent pool as the high schools use? There are many examples of OBR-based games around this area, and they feature the very same guys you see when you do high school ball.

I see no reason for 95% of FED rules at all. They manage to confuse people, for example the folks that wonder why in the world the umpire just killed the ball on that balk the batter knocked out the ballpark, as well as other screwy rules. The only rules the FEDs should concern themselves with are safety issues, but leave the playing rules intact. Have your little sissy FPSR and malicious contact rules, and anything affecting safety, but otherwise leave the game as it was meant to be played, and that is by the Official Baseball Rules. These rules are easily adaptable for safety by installing special rules, so I don't see the need for any further confusion. I've had many players question why a FED rule contradicted the rules they were used to playing by. I could only tell them that whoever made these rules was responsible for the confusion, and that they needed to learn and know both rule sets.

One set of rules for every level of baseball, with a few special rules for each level. That probably will never happen. But it should.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

It has always bugged me that PONY and other youth leagues don't base their rules on a variation of FED rules rather than a variation of OBR.

High school is the highest level of ball that most of these guys will ever play and they have to learn them for the first time when they get there. It's BS. Most of them never really learn them.

It has always bugged me that the FED and high schools insist on playing by a different set of rules than 95% of all youth baseball leagues in America. The arrogance of the FED is just astounding to me. What's wrong with just adapting safety rules into FED rules, and not forcing these players, all of whom grew up playing by OBR, to learn an entirely new set of rules just to make it through a few years of HS ball?

You're right, it's BS! You're also right, most of the kids never completely learn the FED rules (neither do most umpires, as evidenced by all the confusion discussed on this forum over the simplest of rules). That is why they shouldn't have to in the first place.

Oh, and then they have to forget all about FED rules if they advance past HS. Wow, it's like deprogramming a former cult member!

Defenders of the FED faithful, blast away!

[tballump]

"One set of rules for every level of baseball, with a "few" special rules for each level". I might add "and interpretations" after the word rules.

Amen, your the man, SDS

Now if you can just work on the DH in NCAA to make that as simple as OBR.

Good luck.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I see no reason for 95% of FED rules at all. They manage to confuse people, for example the folks that wonder why in the world the umpire just killed the ball on that balk the batter knocked out the ballpark, as well as other screwy rules. The only rules the FEDs should concern themselves with are safety issues, but leave the playing rules intact. Have your little sissy FPSR and malicious contact rules, and anything affecting safety, but otherwise leave the game as it was meant to be played, and that is by the Official Baseball Rules. These rules are easily adaptable for safety by installing special rules, so I don't see the need for any further confusion. I've had many players question why a FED rule contradicted the rules they were used to playing by. I could only tell them that whoever made these rules was responsible for the confusion, and that they needed to learn and know both rule sets.

One set of rules for every level of baseball, with a few special rules for each level. That probably will never happen. But it should.

Well done, Steve. I would love to see this as well. Of course, we both know that Fed wants to write its own rules because they want to have it their own special way. And really, there is nothing stopping a state from adopting a modified form of OBR.

[JR12]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It has always bugged me that the FED and high schools insist on playing by a different set of rules than 95% of all youth baseball leagues in America. The arrogance of the FED is just astounding to me. What's wrong with just adapting safety rules into FED rules, and not forcing these players, all of whom grew up playing by OBR, to learn an entirely new set of rules just to make it through a few years of HS ball?

You're right, it's BS! You're also right, most of the kids never completely learn the FED rules (neither do most umpires, as evidenced by all the confusion discussed on this forum over the simplest of rules). That is why they shouldn't have to in the first place.

Oh, and then they have to forget all about FED rules if they advance past HS. Wow, it's like deprogramming a former cult member!

Defenders of the FED faithful, blast away!

Great post's, My thoughts for years. They are so confusing and change every year. Keep some of the saftey rules as well as the DH, Courtesy Runner and slaughter rule and make the rest the same as OBR.
I think all these changes every year are justifying somebodys job!

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Just got my 2009 NFHS Baseball Case book. 6.1.2.D has changed:

"F1, while on the pitcher's plate in either the windup or set position, (a) adjusts his cap or (b) shakes off the signal with his glove, or (c) shakes off the signal with his head. RULING: In (a) through (c), these are legal actions if these movements of the arms and legs are not associated with the pitch."

My only caveat would be that there are some other arm and or leg movements not associated with the pitch that could be illegal feints.

This still will require further clarification. Remember that FED has uses "in the set position" in two different ways. At times it refers only to the position of the feet, and at times it includes when the hands come together. At some point the will have to tell us which they mean this time.