Ejection Video

[JJ]

Part of what I've been encouraged to do in NCAA is try to keep the coach in the game by listening longer than I would if I were in Pro ball. Logically, then, if and when I finally do dump him, as far as I'm concerned he's already told me what he thinks, I've already explained my position, and he's been repeating himself to the point of wasting everyone's time AND delaying the game. That's why once I dump someone, I'm done talking - and listening - and I turn and walk away and expect my partner to be there to escort him off.
That's not to say that I don't have "quick" ejections when I hear "magic" words, but those are pretty much understood by everyone involved.

JJ

[jkumpire]

Men,

It just seemed to me that the PU was haning back a good distance, then walking in after the ejection. I would been on the hop if I was a distance away.

Your milage may differ..

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

The base umpire invited the confrontation by taking a few steps towards the rat, and also he started talking back to the rat and pointing to the gate. Shouldn't he stand where he is, have the discussion, toss the rat, then not say anything until his partner comes in and walks the rat off the field?

Fifty-six total words and 4 instances of the word 'rat' and you're asking in the original post if the umpire was too aggressive?

[TussAgee11]

Here is what I would have done as BU.

"Coach, I will listen to you, but you need to stop gesturing with your arms and yelling. Let's just talk."

That would have gone a long way. Perhaps BU said this, who knows.

Then, if he continues, dump, and what is the need to get in his face after wards about it. What's the point in giving him a piece of your mind?

If he chooses to make himself look like an idiot, and you look all the more in control, then so be it.

Originally Posted by waltjp

Fifty-six total words and 4 instances of the word 'rat' and you're asking in the original post if the umpire was too aggressive?

My thoughts exactly.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Most of these "rats", if you met them at a bar and started talking baseball with them, you would probably buy them a round!

There are a few coaches who I do not like at all. They have bad reputations concerning pushing umpires right up to a point just before ejecting.

But, I still don't call them "rats". They are coaches/managers. There are Assistant Coaches, and Players, and Fans. Everybody has roles and jobs in baseball.

I have read NOWHERE in a rule book about "rats".

[canadaump6]

I still like the term. To me, a coach is someone who teaches the game and life lessons to his players while respecting all other game participants. I don't think anybody who disrespects an umpire like the one in this video is deserving of the title "coach". "Rat" seems like a more accurate description and I know I am not the first person here to use the term.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I still like the term. To me, a coach is someone who teaches the game and life lessons to his players while respecting all other game participants. I don't think anybody who disrespects an umpire like the one in this video is deserving of the title "coach". "Rat" seems like a more accurate description and I know I am not the first person here to use the term.

While I don't like the term and don't use it myself but I can tolerate it from some of the vets who post here. I do feel it's completely disrespectful coming from someone who is still wet behind the ears.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by rei

My thoughts exactly.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Most of these "rats", if you met them at a bar and started talking baseball with them, you would probably buy them a round!

There are a few coaches who I do not like at all. They have bad reputations concerning pushing umpires right up to a point just before ejecting.

But, I still don't call them "rats". They are coaches/managers. There are Assistant Coaches, and Players, and Fans. Everybody has roles and jobs in baseball.

I have read NOWHERE in a rule book about "rats".

Pre-touchy-feely cumbaya singing umpiring came into vogue, they used to teach in umpire school that all coaches are "c*ock s*ckers" and "rats," and that every player is a "rat." That seemed to be how a lot of us learned this back in the 70s and 80s. I guess old habits die hard.

But I have never used this kind of terminology to a coach, manager, or player's face, just out of professional courtesy. Kind of like why sharks don't eat lawyers.

Walt, you're right. Some people haven't earned the right to use the term yet.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I still like the term. To me, a coach is someone who teaches the game and life lessons to his players while respecting all other game participants. I don't think anybody who disrespects an umpire like the one in this video is deserving of the title "coach". "Rat" seems like a more accurate description and I know I am not the first person here to use the term.

If you felt that this coach acted like a rat, how come you were asking if we thought the umpire was too aggressive? The answer was an overwhelming "NO." Give the manager a piece of cheese.

[tballump]

Seems like the only time "aggressive" for a "manager" comes in to play for some people is the Earl Weaver-Bill Haller argument on Youtube from years ago. Seems like angel Earl was telling the league office that he was a choir boy and didn't say any of the things that the umpires were saying in their umpire reports.

So, Richie Phillips had them wear a wire, and wa la, you can see and hear how Earl talked and acted, and what he felt about the umpires assuming the video is still there on Youtube under Earl Weaver.

Anyway, it should take much less than what Earl said at the amateur level to eject, and it can take less than what Earl said at the pro level also.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by tballump

wa la

Voilà, s'il vous plaît.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by waltjp

While I don't like the term and don't use it myself but I can tolerate it from some of the vets who post here. I do feel it's completely disrespectful coming from someone who is still wet behind the ears.

That doesn't really make any sense to me. Wouldn't the usage of the term "rat" by anyone be dependent on the perceived behavior or actions of the coach rather than the experience of the person using the term?

Methinks that the young 'un has already differentiated between a "coach" and a "rat" by saying that a "rat" is a coach that dis-respects umpires. Methinks also that if you're going to question young Canada, in this particular case you should maybe be questioning his judgment, not his experience.

Of course, none of this particular l'il disagreement is worth a rat's azz anyway imo.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Voilà, s'il vous plaît.

Fixed your post. Sheesh, if you're going to correct him at least get it right.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

this is where there is a monumental difference in what is taught at pro schools and expected in pro ball, and what is apparently practiced at amateur levels. Rich's post above is on par with what is taught at the schools. if the argument remains one on one and is not violent (heated is OK, violent is not) then the argument will continue to be one on one until something happens that dictates the partner(s) getting involved. such things generally include:

Bobby IMO, you canot compare what is taught at PRO School to the amteur level.

PRO ball is on TV for all to see and while Lou Pinella might make a jerk out of himself I do not think the umpires feel as though Lou will take a punch or become violent. Yes he's thrown dirt on the umpire, he's thrown bases etc. but nothing in which the umpires felt was threatening.

In amateur baseball we are dealing with amateur coaches. You do not know what will happen so IMO, in the amateur game it's best for the umpire who is not involved in the discussion to step in as quickly as possible to get the coach to leave.

Also, I cannot speak for college but in HS we do not have any "armed security" at our disposal as do PRO umpires.

In a nutshell in the amateur game if coaches act like the one in the video they should be suspended for a Long time. Also, the "other" partner should step in more quickly then they would in a D1 College game or a PRO game because one is comparing Apples to Oranges.

Pete Booth

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Fixed your post. Sheesh, if you're going to correct him at least get it right.

No, I fixed it, but thanks for the scolding. It prompted me to do some research and learn how to type an à and an î.