Buying yourself (and your partner) trouble

[canadaump6]

I did an adult game tonight. The same batter went 0 for 3, with three called strikeouts. Every time he said something objectionable, getting worse on every strikeout. Finally I just said "goodbye" and tossed him, not knowing that the game was over. Oh well, hopefully he gets a game suspension. Baseball doesn't need players who refuse to swing the bat and then yell at the umpire when they have a sh1t game at the plate.

As for keeping people in the game- good luck trying to do that while keeping the game under control. I had 3 people arguing with me at once over an interference call, personal comments all over the place and of course acting out the play the way they thought it went. Sometimes you've just got to mouth off right back to them, because ejecting people will only give you a bad reputation.

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I did an adult game tonight. The same batter went 0 for 3, with three called strikeouts. Every time he said something objectionable, getting worse on every strikeout. Finally I just said "goodbye" and tossed him, not knowing that the game was over. Oh well, hopefully he gets a game suspension. Baseball doesn't need players who refuse to swing the bat and then yell at the umpire when they have a sh1t game at the plate.

As for keeping people in the game- good luck trying to do that while keeping the game under control. I had 3 people arguing with me at once over an interference call, personal comments all over the place and of course acting out the play the way they thought it went. Sometimes you've just got to mouth off right back to them, because ejecting people will only give you a bad reputation.

*tisk tisk* You didn't read a word I wrote in this thread did you?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I did an adult game tonight. The same batter went 0 for 3, with three called strikeouts. Every time he said something objectionable, getting worse on every strikeout. Finally I just said "goodbye" and tossed him, not knowing that the game was over. Oh well, hopefully he gets a game suspension. Baseball doesn't need players who refuse to swing the bat and then yell at the umpire when they have a sh1t game at the plate.

How do you not know that the game is over? Aren't you paying attention to what inning you're in? Man, I never wanted to be surprised that the game is over. If you would have known the game was over, you could have rung him up, walked away, headed for the gate, and left him at the plate cursing to nobody in particular. You can't toss him after the game's over in OBR anyway. I don't think you're gonna get a suspension for this dude, since your ejection was "unofficial."

Originally Posted by canadaump6

As for keeping people in the game- good luck trying to do that while keeping the game under control. I had 3 people arguing with me at once over an interference call, personal comments all over the place and of course acting out the play the way they thought it went. Sometimes you've just got to mouth off right back to them, because ejecting people will only give you a bad reputation.

Screw keeping them in the game. They need to keep themselves in the game. So what you get a reputation? You will get a reputation that you don't take any crap, as long as you eject with authority, and don't act like a squirt about it, throwing a similar tantrum. Let them throw the tantrum, and if they do something that crosses the line, calmly and forcefully eject their sorry a$$ from the game! Hey, if you get known as a no-nonsense umpire, who doesn't suffer fools, soon they will start keeping their mouths shut and just playing ball and living with your calls. It's weakness that they don't respect. They don't respect umpires who continue to tolerate the things you are describing.

You had 3 people arguing with you at once? Where was your partner during all of this? Why wouldn't your partner be down there getting the extra participants off your a$$? I wouldn't work with a partner who would let 3 rats argue with me and was just standing around looking at his shoes.

Personal comments? Gone. Acting out the play? Good Lord, GONE. How could you allow that to continue? Eject their asses down to 8 players and go home. They will get the hint not to f*ck with you if you show them who's running the show. I'll be damned if I let some weekend warrior wannabe ex-nobodies/has-beens/never-weres run me! You have to establish the arbiter-player hierarchy or they will eat you alive.

Here are a few things that would draw an automatic ejection from me:

Leaving the bench or position to argue balls and strikes
Drawing a line in the dirt to show me where the pitch was
Reenacting a play demonstrably
Getting personal or using foul language directed at me
Continuing to argue after being told "that's enough"
Bumping me intentionally

[canadaump6]

Steve,

Great points, all of which I agree with. Sadly, being new to doing "adult" ball, I've tried the take no crap approach but it hasn't worked out well. With the various politics at some of the upper levels, I have become very unpopular for throwing out rats whom the umpire in chief sides with. It's a catch 22. Should I take abuse and continue moving up the umpiring ladder, or should I toss rats and not be wanted to do their games?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Steve,

Great points, all of which I agree with. Sadly, being new to doing "adult" ball, I've tried the take no crap approach but it hasn't worked out well. With the various politics at some of the upper levels, I have become very unpopular for throwing out rats whom the umpire in chief sides with. It's a catch 22. Should I take abuse and continue moving up the umpiring ladder, or should I toss rats and not be wanted to do their games?

If I didn't have the support of my superior, I would stop doing baseball for that superior, who frankly is not superior to anyone. Why in the world would your UIC side with the rats? Doesn't sound like much of an umpire to me. You can tell him I said so, and I'll tell him to his face if you'd like. He has you hamstrung to where you can't win. Either find a new group to umpire with, or tell this f*cker that you will umpire the way you're supposed to!

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Steve,

Great points, all of which I agree with. Sadly, being new to doing "adult" ball, I've tried the take no crap approach but it hasn't worked out well. With the various politics at some of the upper levels, I have become very unpopular for throwing out rats whom the umpire in chief sides with. It's a catch 22. Should I take abuse and continue moving up the umpiring ladder, or should I toss rats and not be wanted to do their games?

It's hard to give say exactly how you should handle something. What works for me may not work for you and what works for you may not work for the next guy. Bottom line is to know where the line is yourself and when they cross it they're done. I've said before, the only ejections I regret are the ones I didn't make.

Final advice, don't officiate any game to please the participants. If they sense that they'll walk all over you. Work hard, do a good job and you'll always have work.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by waltjp

It's hard to give say exactly how you should handle something. What works for me may not work for you and what works for you may not work for the next guy. Bottom line is to know where the line is yourself and when they cross it they're done. I've said before, the only ejections I regret are the ones I didn't make.

Final advice, don't officiate any game to please the participants. If they sense that they'll walk all over you. Work hard, do a good job and you'll always have work.

I generally agree.

I would add, though, that you do need to work to "please the participants" -- not necessarily just those involved in the current game, but the league overall.

You need to figure out *why* you're getting so much crap and figure out *if* you can address is. Some things that I've seen in other leagues (and, I'm NOT saying that any of these apply to you):

1) Umpires worried too much about things that don't matter (bats in the on-deck circle, uniforms, players mingling about outside the dugout, the pace between innings) to the participants (iow, being an OOO)

2) Umpires not calling the strike zone expected IN THAT LEAGUE

3) Poor umpiring / judgement (including the proper / expected application of the neighborhood paly and the "expected call" for that league) / hustle (including "over hustle" or "false hustle")

4) It's the nature of the league to ***** a little and the umpire doesn't distinguish between what's "allowed" and what's "too much" (let me add that if what's "allowed" is too much for a particular umpire, that umpire should choose not to work that league)

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I generally agree.

I would add, though, that you do need to work to "please the participants" -- not necessarily just those involved in the current game, but the league overall.

You need to figure out *why* you're getting so much crap and figure out *if* you can address is. Some things that I've seen in other leagues (and, I'm NOT saying that any of these apply to you):

1) Umpires worried too much about things that don't matter (bats in the on-deck circle, uniforms, players mingling about outside the dugout, the pace between innings) to the participants (iow, being an OOO)

2) Umpires not calling the strike zone expected IN THAT LEAGUE

3) Poor umpiring / judgement (including the proper / expected application of the neighborhood paly and the "expected call" for that league) / hustle (including "over hustle" or "false hustle")

4) It's the nature of the league to ***** a little and the umpire doesn't distinguish between what's "allowed" and what's "too much" (let me add that if what's "allowed" is too much for a particular umpire, that umpire should choose not to work that league)

I generally agree with this post. I think the key point is figuring out if there is something YOU can be doing to cut down on the *****ing. It is not like these guys are ALWAYS wrong about the strike zone!

I also agree that you cannot enforce all the ticky tacky stuff about equipment on the field in foul territory, mingling outside the dugouts, etc... Hey, these guys pay their own hard earned money to play in this league. If those are the things they want to do, let it go until it becomes an issue somehow. Then, you should "suggest" that they do something about it. If the other team is complaining, remind them that you will have to enforce the same thing on them. Usually, cooler heads will say "Hey blue, never mind. No worries".

Did a NABA league semi-final game tonight on the dish. The winning teams starting pitcher had a perfect game thru 1 out in the bottom of the 6th, then gave up 3 hits and 3 runs. Anyway, the opposing teams catcher, an ex-D1 player was at bat, and looked at an 1-2 that was a ball width inside at the belt. A strike on anybody else, but not my catcher! The pitcher couldn't get over it. I finally, in a low voice as he walked by after one of the hits told him to quit arguing balls and strikes. Not another word from him, and he actually went out of his way to approach me half way to the car to apologize and shake me hand.

I don't know how I do it sometimes, but I DO know that the D1 umpire who presented Verbal Judo to me claimed that guys I would normally have had to eject in the past, and would be huge problems in a game would probably start apologizing for their behavior if Verbal Judo was applied correctly. Guess what? He was right!

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by rei

I generally agree with this post. I think the key point is figuring out if there is something YOU can be doing to cut down on the *****ing. It is not like these guys are ALWAYS wrong about the strike zone!

I also agree that you cannot enforce all the ticky tacky stuff about equipment on the field in foul territory, mingling outside the dugouts, etc... Hey, these guys pay their own hard earned money to play in this league. If those are the things they want to do, let it go until it becomes an issue somehow. Then, you should "suggest" that they do something about it. If the other team is complaining, remind them that you will have to enforce the same thing on them. Usually, cooler heads will say "Hey blue, never mind. No worries".

Did a NABA league semi-final game tonight on the dish. The winning teams starting pitcher had a perfect game thru 1 out in the bottom of the 6th, then gave up 3 hits and 3 runs. Anyway, the opposing teams catcher, an ex-D1 player was at bat, and looked at an 1-2 that was a ball width inside at the belt. A strike on anybody else, but not my catcher! The pitcher couldn't get over it. I finally, in a low voice as he walked by after one of the hits told him to quit arguing balls and strikes. Not another word from him, and he actually went out of his way to approach me half way to the car to apologize and shake me hand.

I don't know how I do it sometimes, but I DO know that the D1 umpire who presented Verbal Judo to me claimed that guys I would normally have had to eject in the past, and would be huge problems in a game would probably start apologizing for their behavior if Verbal Judo was applied correctly. Guess what? He was right!

I wish I knew what verbal judo was.

[Fan10]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

You can't toss him after the game's over in OBR anyway.

Link: http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...snot_0611.html

By the way, you (were) outta here

Cox had an ejection added to his career record total, and didn't even know it until the following day.

Cox, third-base coach Brian Snitker, first-base coach Glenn Hubbard and outfielder Matt Diaz were all ejected in the immediate aftermatch of Friday's game-ending play when Gregor Blanco was thrown out trying to score on Yunel Escobar's 10th-inning RBI single in a 4-3 loss against the Phillies.

There was a heated discussion at the plate by several parties after the play, and the Braves received an e-mail Saturday to make sure they were aware that the foursome had been ejected (ejections are accompanied by automatic fines).

Technically, the game was already over when the four got tossed, but an ejection is an ejection, and it goes down in the books.

It raised Cox's total to 139 career ejections, including four this season.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Fan10

Link: http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...snot_0611.html

I was originally led to believe that these ejections were considered "unofficial." He has 6 now this season and 142 for his career BTW.

[canadaump6]

and down goes another thread

[Tim C]

Canada:

Let me explain something:

When I first heard of "internet umpire message boards" it was explained to me that these boards were the same as a group of umpires sitting around a favorite watering hole sharing an adult beverage and talking about "stuff."

That was exactly what I was looking for: a group of people with a common "hobby" that could interface about an entire spectrum of ideas, concepts, thoughts and passions.

In my neck of the woods I don't remember a time when the conversation of the group of umpires didn't drift off to subjects such as hunting and fishing, family, girl friends, movies or other extraneous items.

It seems that every time a thread on this site moves off to some off direction you always complain. Tell me: if you were sitting in a group of umpires after a tourney final talking umpiring and someone started talking about Tiger Woods would you tell them "get back on subject!"

I have a small suggestion: when a thread goes a direction you don't care for just quite reading it.

Just like any group of people we have various interests and hot buttons . . . maybe you take this whole thing to seriously.

Regards,