Got me thinking

[johnnyg08]

foul tip has to touch glove first.

[Dave Reed]

Your interpretation and reasoning is correct.

Here's what J/R says: "A nicked pitch that initially strikes something other than the catcher's glove or hand (e.g. the ground, batter, umpire, mask, protector) cannot be a foul tip; it is simply a nick and foul."

NFHS 5-1-1d says: " Ball becomes dead immediately when:.....d. a foul ball (2-16-1):.....2. goes directly from the bat to the catcher’s protector, mask or person without first touching the catcher’s glove or hand;"
Note that 2-16-1 defines a foul ball as one " that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or a player or any object foreign to the natural ground;"

The NCAA rule is similar to OBR.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

foul tip has to touch glove first.

Can you cite the relevent rule?

Here's what J/R says: "A nicked pitch that initially strikes something other than the catcher's glove or hand (e.g. the ground, batter, umpire, mask, protector) cannot be a foul tip; it is simply a nick and foul."

Like I said ... doh!

I might want to get me one of them J/R rule thingy books.

[bobbybanaduck]

2.00, definition of a foul tip. you don't need a j/r, you need to not neglect the early part of the rule book. start at the beginning, sir.

[bobbybanaduck]

and, to go back to your OP, the difference is (when explaining to your friend) one is a foul tip, which, by rule, has to go sharp and direct to the catcher's glove or hand first. the other is a fly ball, which, by rule, is still considered "in flight" when it deflects off of the catcher's mask.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

and, to go back to your OP, the difference is (when explaining to your friend) one is a foul tip, which, by rule, has to go sharp and direct to the catcher's glove or hand first. the other is a fly ball, which, by rule, is still considered "in flight" when it deflects off of the catcher's mask.

Not to pick hairs, but in the original op, the ball went sharp and direct into the catcher's helmet then straight up. I needed a rules interp that killed the ball the moment the ball hit the mask. I know what you are saying though.

[UmpTTS43]

We are not dealing with a foul tip senario. We are dealing with a situation in which the ball hits something else other than the glove first. I was just looking for a rule or interp that defines the status of the ball when this happens. Ironically, the answer seems to be within the definition of a foul tip. I guess I was looking for an adequate "foul ball" definition. One that might include:

Foul Ball .... or a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat and first contacts the catcher's person or equipment, other than his glove or hands.

[SanDiegoSteve]

From Rule 2.00:

A FLY BALL is a batted ball that goes high in the air in flight.

A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possesion in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it; providing he does not use his cap, protector, pocket or any other part of his uniform in getting possession.

IN FLIGHT describes a batted, thrown, or pitched ball which has not yet touched the ground or some object other than a fielder.

A FIELDER is any defensive player.

The PERSON of a player or and umpire is any part of his body, his clothing or his equipment.

************************************************** ******

Therefore, a fly ball can be caught by the catcher after it hits his mask, which is part of his person. He just can't use his mask to make the catch, but it can bounce off of it.