Rule 10- Official Scorer and putout

[TussAgee11]

I'll play nice...

Theoretically speaking...

F2 gets a putout because it was his action that created the out, not the pitch being a strike.

Suppose F2 drops the ball, and BR advances safely. According to your suggestion, F1 should still get a putout because he struck the batter out. Remember: a strike out is NOT an out until catcher catches the ball, or a runner is forced out on a D3K.

And, what difference does it make if he swings or not? A strike is a strike... don't matter how you get it.

Now, I'll return to rules 1-9.

[Rich Ives]

This is a major rewrite to the rules, as the catcher was not previously credited with putouts on strikeouts. Now the catcher is credited with the putout, and the pitcher is credited with the strikeout, but not the putout.


Huh?

The catcher has gotten the putout for decades, if not forever.

e.g.

Walter Johnson

3508 K's
292 Putouts.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

This is a major rewrite to the rules, as the catcher was not previously credited with putouts on strikeouts. Now the catcher is credited with the putout, and the pitcher is credited with the strikeout, but not the putout.


Huh?

The catcher has gotten the putout for decades, if not forever.

e.g.

Walter Johnson

3508 K's
292 Putouts.

Huh?

The last I'd heard, the Big Train was a pitcher, not a catcher. Walter Johnson covered first base on balls to the right side, and caught line drives and popups too. Hence the putouts. His strikeouts were also considered putouts, although not credited as such.

By rule, the catcher was not credited with a separate putout. All of Johnson's strikeouts counted as putouts, in addition to the 292 that came from other plays. Strikeouts were credited to the pitcher only in rule 10.17. Now the rule is 10.15, after the rules change.

The rule now known as 10.09 (b) used to not exist. Rule 10.10 used to be the section that addressed putouts. 10.10 (a) (1 through 7) were the only putouts automatically assigned to the catcher, and the batter being called out on strikes was not one of them. Now, under the newer rule changes, the catcher is credited with a putout.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Huh?

The last I'd heard, the Big Train was a pitcher, not a catcher. Walter Johnson covered first base on balls to the right side, and caught line drives and popups too. Hence the putouts. His strikeouts were also considered putouts, although not credited as such.

By rule, the catcher was not credited with a separate putout. All of Johnson's strikeouts counted as putouts, in addition to the 292 that came from other plays. Strikeouts were credited to the pitcher only in rule 10.17. Now the rule is 10.15, after the rules change.

The rule now known as 10.09 (b) used to not exist. Rule 10.10 used to be the section that addressed putouts. 10.10 (a) (1 through 7) were the only putouts automatically assigned to the catcher, and the batter being called out on strikes was not one of them. Now, under the newer rule changes, the catcher is credited with a putout.

So when did the rule change?

I mentioned Johnson because the K's greatly exceeded putouts. How could that be if K's counted as putouts?

As for catchers:

Bill Dickey had 7,965 putouts in his career.
Gabby Harntet 7,007 as a catcher.
Yogi - 8,738 as a catcher.
Ernie Lombardi - 5,694.
Al Lopez - 6,644

How would a catcher get that many without having the K's count?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

So when did the rule change?

I mentioned Johnson because the K's greatly exceeded putouts. How could that be if K's counted as putouts?

As for catchers:

Bill Dickey had 7,965 putouts in his career.
Gabby Harntet 7,007 as a catcher.
Yogi - 8,738 as a catcher.
Ernie Lombardi - 5,694.
Al Lopez - 6,644

How would a catcher get that many without having the K's count?

The rule changes must have been added when the playing rules were revised a couple years ago, like the same time the 20 second rule was changed to 12, or the rule about the batter being out on an uncaught 3rd strike when he leaves the dirt circle on his way to the bench.

The rule was probably rewritten just to clarify what was common scoring practice, but in the book I have (from the 1990's) catchers weren't automatically given the putout on strikeouts, at least according to the rules.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I just did a little research and discovered that I was correct. The "new" Rule 10 addresses the gap in the rules. It was another of those mistakes in the rules that has now been rectified.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I just did a little research and discovered that I was correct. The "new" Rule 10 addresses the gap in the rules. It was another of those mistakes in the rules that has now been rectified.

I'm thinking the "old" rule 10.17 was used to credit the catcher. 10.17 is really about crediting a strikeout, but it also involves the ball being caught by the catcher.

10.17 Yada Yada
(1) A batter is put out by a third strike caught by the catcher;

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The rule changes must have been added when the playing rules were revised a couple years ago, like the same time the 20 second rule was changed to 12, or the rule about the batter being out on an uncaught 3rd strike when he leaves the dirt circle on his way to the bench.

The rule was probably rewritten just to clarify what was common scoring practice, but in the book I have (from the 1990's) catchers weren't automatically given the putout on strikeouts, at least according to the rules.

You're reading something somewhere. Catchers have always gotten a putout on a caught third strike. Nine inning and losing team is home, the box score should account for a total of 54 putouts. No more or no less. A KO can go from a catcher getting an assist and first baseman will get a putout. As least that is the way I remember the way it was scored from years ago.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

You're reading something somewhere. Catchers have always gotten a putout on a caught third strike. Nine inning and losing team is home, the box score should account for a total of 54 putouts. No more or no less. A KO can go from 1-2-3 on a dropped third strike. Pitcher and catcher get an assist and first baseman will get a putout. As least that is the way I remember the way it was scored from years ago.

Get a pre-2006 rule book and check out the wording, which has been now changed in the new books. Read 10.10 (a) (1 through 7) and see that it doesn't mention strikeouts for catcher's putouts. Like I said, there was a gap in the rules, but now it has been addressed.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

And, what difference does it make if he swings or not? A strike is a strike... don't matter how you get it.

Now, I'll return to rules 1-9.

This is why you are a h8tr and will never fit in around here.