Two Balk Questions-OBR

[eagle_12]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

What is "opening the gate"? If he throws to first, how has the pitcher balked?

Pitch lifts front foot, as to going to home and swings all the way around to throw to first. Doesn't not move back foot either to step off or to make a turn. Just swings all the way around to throw.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by eagle_12

Pitch lifts front foot, as to going to home and swings all the way around to throw to first. Doesn't not move back foot either to step off or to make a turn. Just swings all the way around to throw.

As long as the "swing" is done in a fluid and continuous motion, and the pivot foot gains distance and direction to first, this isn't a balk. Although, I can't envision it being done without an ACL tear.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I don't know about all this "opening the gate" BS, but my answer was for a balk on the pitcher whlie overthrowing to a base, in this case, first base.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

As long as the "swing" is done in a fluid and continuous motion, and the pivot foot gains distance and direction to first, this isn't a balk. Although, I can't envision it being done without an ACL tear.


Tim.

It's a balk because of "lifts foot as going to home (sic)". As I read it, the lift was toward the "balance point" before F1 turned and threw to first.

[L.A. Umpire Guy]

A is not a balk; B is a balk. The second that his cleats on his left foot leave the dirt he has to go to the plate. It's a move normally associated with a delivery.

[Tim C]

"The second that his cleats on his left foot leave the dirt he has to go to the plate."

Please explain this statement . . . it has me a little confused.

Regards,

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by L.A. Umpire Guy

A is not a balk; B is a balk. The second that his cleats on his left foot leave the dirt he has to go to the plate. It's a move normally associated with a delivery.

L.A. your analogy sounds like that of a coach's, so let me go about it with you the same way that I do with them:

"Please stand here and show me how you can go from a set to stepping toward 1st base without lifting your foot. If you can, I will agree with you and call a balk on the pitcher."

Not one coach has been able to do it in almost 30 years. I give you the same option - film it and post it and I'm sure that we all will consider it.

[L.A. Umpire Guy]

I'm just some umpire, who was commenting on the situation of a right-handed pitcher making a move to first base. I don't know how you missed that part. The cleats leave the dirt reference was a simple symbol of the foot leaving the ground. And when a right-handed pitcher picks up his left (front) foot, and then does not deliver a pitch, but instead turns and throws to first, it is a balk. Why the confusion? And how is it not a balk?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by L.A. Umpire Guy

I'm just some umpire, who was commenting on the situation of a right-handed pitcher making a move to first base. I don't know how you missed that part. The cleats leave the dirt reference was a simple symbol of the foot leaving the ground. And when a right-handed pitcher picks up his left (front) foot, and then does not deliver a pitch, but instead turns and throws to first, it is a balk. Why the confusion? And how is it not a balk?

No, we umpire according to the rules, and according to the rules, you are wrong.

Three things the rules state that any pitcher can do (From the rubber):

1. Pitch
2. Disengage
3. Step and throw to a base.

Please explain how he can perform #3 without lifting his foot off the ground.

[L.A. Umpire Guy]

He lifted his front foot and then threw to first. OK? I'm sorry that you guys decided to make a debate about the one part of this topic that not debatable ... whether scenario B is a balk.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's a balk because of "lifts foot as going to home (sic)". As I read it, the lift was toward the "balance point" before F1 turned and threw to first.

I guess we're reading it differently. I read it as a pitcher lifting his foot and beginning to "swing" toward first in a continuous motion. There was no mention of F1 "hanging" his knee to a balance point, nor was there a mention made of initial rotation of the free foot toward the plate.............


Tim.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I guess we're reading it differently. I read it as a pitcher lifting his foot and beginning to "swing" toward first in a continuous motion. There was no mention of F1 "hanging" his knee to a balance point, nor was there a mention made of initial rotation of the free foot toward the plate.............


Tim.

Under your "reading" of the play, I agree -- and that also explains the rule to LAUmpire.

If the left foot (non-pivot foot) moves "immediately" toward first (as the knee and left hip also open toward first), then the pick-off is legal -- even though the left foot lifts first and the cleats clear the gorund.

If the left foot (and knee, and the hips stay closed) first moves toward third, then F1 cannot legally throw to first.

It's a debate that has raged since Al Gore invented the internet -- and all becuase of differeing views of the play in reader's mind's eyes of the words "lifts his foot."