Two Balk Questions-OBR

[eagle_12]

1. R1, pitcher pivots to throw to 1st, slips and is falling down but still "throws"/attempts to throw to 1st. Ball trickles towards 1st base but doesn't even make it to the cut out. Balk?

2. R1, RHP pitcher balks by "opening the gate" to throw to 1st. Overthrows first, R1 advances around bases to home and scores. Still a live ball becuase of play being made. How far can he advance, and when does he become liable for being putout.

[SanDiegoSteve]

1. No

2. He advances until he stops or is put out by the defense. He is liable to be put out at any point after he touches his awarded base (second) and attempts further advancement and is not touching a base, until he touches home, just like at any other time. There is no limitation on the number of bases he can advance, he just does so at his own risk. Rule 8.05(c) APPROVED RULING #1.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by eagle_12

1. R1, pitcher pivots to throw to 1st, slips and is falling down but still "throws"/attempts to throw to 1st. Ball trickles towards 1st base but doesn't even make it to the cut out. Balk?

2. R1, RHP pitcher balks by "opening the gate" to throw to 1st. Overthrows first, R1 advances around bases to home and scores. Still a live ball because of play being made. How far can he advance, and when does he become liable for being putout.

What is "opening the gate"? If he throws to first, how has the pitcher balked?

[eagle_12]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

What is "opening the gate"? If he throws to first, how has the pitcher balked?

Pitch lifts front foot, as to going to home and swings all the way around to throw to first. Doesn't not move back foot either to step off or to make a turn. Just swings all the way around to throw.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by eagle_12

Pitch lifts front foot, as to going to home and swings all the way around to throw to first. Doesn't not move back foot either to step off or to make a turn. Just swings all the way around to throw.

As long as the "swing" is done in a fluid and continuous motion, and the pivot foot gains distance and direction to first, this isn't a balk. Although, I can't envision it being done without an ACL tear.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I don't know about all this "opening the gate" BS, but my answer was for a balk on the pitcher whlie overthrowing to a base, in this case, first base.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

As long as the "swing" is done in a fluid and continuous motion, and the pivot foot gains distance and direction to first, this isn't a balk. Although, I can't envision it being done without an ACL tear.


Tim.

It's a balk because of "lifts foot as going to home (sic)". As I read it, the lift was toward the "balance point" before F1 turned and threw to first.

[L.A. Umpire Guy]

A is not a balk; B is a balk. The second that his cleats on his left foot leave the dirt he has to go to the plate. It's a move normally associated with a delivery.

[Tim C]

"The second that his cleats on his left foot leave the dirt he has to go to the plate."

Please explain this statement . . . it has me a little confused.

Regards,

[L.A. Umpire Guy]

I'm just some umpire, who was commenting on the situation of a right-handed pitcher making a move to first base. I don't know how you missed that part. The cleats leave the dirt reference was a simple symbol of the foot leaving the ground. And when a right-handed pitcher picks up his left (front) foot, and then does not deliver a pitch, but instead turns and throws to first, it is a balk. Why the confusion? And how is it not a balk?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by L.A. Umpire Guy

I'm just some umpire, who was commenting on the situation of a right-handed pitcher making a move to first base. I don't know how you missed that part. The cleats leave the dirt reference was a simple symbol of the foot leaving the ground. And when a right-handed pitcher picks up his left (front) foot, and then does not deliver a pitch, but instead turns and throws to first, it is a balk. Why the confusion? And how is it not a balk?

No, we umpire according to the rules, and according to the rules, you are wrong.

Three things the rules state that any pitcher can do (From the rubber):

1. Pitch
2. Disengage
3. Step and throw to a base.

Please explain how he can perform #3 without lifting his foot off the ground.

[L.A. Umpire Guy]

He lifted his front foot and then threw to first. OK? I'm sorry that you guys decided to make a debate about the one part of this topic that not debatable ... whether scenario B is a balk.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by L.A. Umpire Guy

Wow.


He lifted his front foot and then threw to first.

So?

[Tim C]

Question to La Umpire Guy:

Let's keep it simple:

Are you saying that a right handed pitcher must disengage, do a jump-turn or do a jab step when attempting a pick-off at first base?

Even more elemental:

Are you saying a right handed pitcher cannot throw to first base, on a pipckoff attempt, from the set position when in contact with the pitcher's plate?

Regards,

[L.A. Umpire Guy]

This is just for the gentlemen here, like chuckfan1:

I will defer that in order to perform a legal pop move, the left foot leaves the ground and a delivery is not made. But it leaves the ground at the same time as the right foot. So, if the left foot leaves the ground first, or without the right, and there is not a delivery to the plate, it's a balk.

When Lou Brock stole a base, against most pitchers, including all those with a wide stance, he used the backs of the pitchers' knee joints as his trigger move. If he's stealing, as soon as the back of the left knee begins to bend, he bolts. This actually occurs an instant before the foot begins to lift. The same goes for the right knee being the first to move on a step-off move, alerting him to go back.

So if you think about it, even if the front leg begins to wiggle and a delivery is not made to the plate, it's a balk.