Two balk questions

[Paul L]

1. When does a pitcher in the set position commit to delivering to the batter? One might think that lifting the free foot or separating hands could be a "motion naturally associated with his pitch", thus requiring pitching to the batter, but then no pickoff attempts could ever be made. So what do you look for in deciding when the pitcher is committed to delivering the pitch to the batter, e.g., after a pitcher in the set position raises the free foot?

2. How far does the pivot foot in the set position have to move backward in order to successfully step off? An inch? Partially over the back edge of the rubber? More than half a shoe width past the back edge? All the way back with no contact between pivot shoe and rubber? I'm thinking feints or overthrows to first.

[UmpJM]

Paul L.,

#1. It depends on where the runners are. For purposes of illustration, let's say the bases are full and a RHP.

If that is the case, once the RHP moves his free foot in a direction other than directly to 1B, he can no longer go to 1B, or he will have balked; he may still throw a pick-off to 3B or 2B or deliver a pitch.

As he lifts his stride leg to balance and and pivots his body, if his free foot passes the back plane of the rubber (partially in OBR, completely in FED), he has lost the option of going to 3B, but may still throw to 2B or deliver the pitch.

Once his body momentum "reverses" so that something is moving back towards home (shoulder, foot, leg...) he must now deliver the pitch.

Unless he never "broke" the back plane of the rubber. If he did not, he would still have the option of throwing to 3B as long as he "lands" his free foot more in the direction of 3B than to 2B or home, and does so before releasing the throw.

#2. I believe his pivot foot must land entirely behind the rubber for it to be a legal disengage.

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

As he lifts his stride leg to balance and and pivots his body, if his free foot passes the back plane of the rubber (partially in OBR, completely in FED), he has lost the option of going to 3B, but may still throw to 2B or deliver the pitch.

The foot must completely pass the back plane of the rubber in all codes.

[UmpJM]

Bob,

The foot must completely pass the back plane of the rubber in all codes.

Huh?

The MLBUM says:

(c) When a pitcher swings any part of his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher's rubber, it is a balk if he does not pitch to the batter, unless he throws (or feints a throw) to second base on a pick-off play.

which was what I intended to convey in my post.

JM

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Paul L.,

#
As he lifts his stride leg to balance and and pivots his body, if his free foot passes the back plane of the rubber (partially in OBR, completely in FED), he has lost the option of going to 3B, but may still throw to 2B or deliver the pitch.

JM: Evans teaches the "entire foot past the back plane of the rubber." Where would you have learned otherwise?

[GarthB]

JM:

Color me confused.

Evans (at his academy and in his balk video), Wendelstedt, PBUC and common practice and custom has it the entire foot behind the back plane.

Could the MLBUM actually be wrong, or be breaking new ground?

Interesting.

[UmpJM]

Garth,

Hmmm,

The BRD supports what you and Bob J. suggest. I checked my notes from October & don't have anything written down that says one way or the other -if Jim had commented on this during class, I probably would have written it down, especially if it contradicted my understanding. But that's certainly not conclusive, by any stretch of the imagination.

(edited to add, simply as a point of information...) The J/R, on the other hand, seems to support the MLBUM ruling.

Since I will not ever be umpiring any MLB games in this life, I'm kind of inclined to go with what Garth and Bob J. suggest for any games I'm working - under the general principle of "don't go looking for boogers". Plus the vast majority of games I'll do this year, I'll be working "solo", and there's no way I could even make that fine a distinction on the question from behind the plate.

JM

[UMP25]

Well, I can tell you what a buddy of mine in MLB explained, "It's the entire foot. We don't balk a guy if only a part of his foot broke the plane. We look for something more obvious, which is the whole foot."

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Garth,

Hmmm,

I checked my notes from October & don't have anything written down that says one way or the other -if Jim had commented on this during class, I probably would have written it down, especially if it contradicted my understanding.
JM

I have it in my notes, but it could be because a question was asked.

Check his Balk Video. He explains it there.

[ozzy6900]

Foot swinging past the rubber:

OBR - 8.05
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --
(a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery;
Rule 8.05(a) Comment: If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher’s rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick-off-play.

FED - 6-2-4

Balk. If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a

pitther while he is touching the pitcher's plate is a balk:

f. failing to pitch to the batter when the entire non-pivot foot passes behind

the perpendicular plane of the back edge of the pitcher's plate, except when

feinting or throwing to second base in an attempt to put out a runner.

NCAA - 9.1-B

(3) When the pitcher starts the delivery from the set position and the
entire free foot or any part of the stride leg breaks the plane of the
back edge of the pitcher’s rubber, the pitcher is committed to throw

or feint a motion toward second base or pitch to home plate.
PENALTY—For violations of 1, 2 or 3, a “balk” shall be called.

Posted just to help with the understanding of the discussions.

[johnnyg08]

don't go looking for trouble on balks...know the obvious ones and don't let the defense gain an advantage and you'll be fine...keep it simple.