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Mon Apr 15, 2002, 02:31pm
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GENTLEMEN OF BLUE:
Once again this issue surfaces. The question deals with when is the pitcher (RH in this case) committed to pitch to the batter and unable to attempt a pick-off at first base (balk). RH pitcher, with runner on first, comes to a complete and discernible stop. He then raises his 'free non-pivot' foot straigt up in the air and follows that action by truning and throwing to first. There is no detectable motion of this raised led towards home plate before going to first with his step and throw. According to Carl's BRD (TWENTIETH EDITION) 383 "time of pitch" definition: this appears to be a legal move. It states, "FED: The time of pitch occurs: (1) in the SET POSITION: when the pitcher seperates his hands before delivering;" OBR point in not covered. Additionally, in Carl's BRD 381 "AO 18-381: J/R: Treat as in FED. (102) Note 374 which speaks about a 'double set' being prohibited by 8.05a, there is the following information: "...standard interpertation that F1 commits to pitch in the set position when "he shows movement towards home plate." I read this as stating that if F1 raises his leg, but does not seperated his hands prior to going to first base, then the move is legal. If the hands get seperated while the leg is in the air, then F1 may only go to the batter or we have a balk. All this seems to validate the move as legal. Is this so? Are there any additional interpertations to further clarify this issue?
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Ed 
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Mon Apr 15, 2002, 03:04pm
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Quote:
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Mon Apr 15, 2002, 03:53pm
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Bob
We're talking about the very same move that 'lefty's' make when being successful in p/o attempts at first base. The hanging foot element can also be present with righty's. The language of any movement normally associated to pitching to the batter does matter, but if lefty's can hang the foot and then go to first, I don't see how the righty can be penalized for doing precisely the same move. This is, off course, understanding that the 'hanging' foot does not move towards the plate/batter. The reason I quoted what I did is that the language regarding 'movement normally associated' is at best vague and not well-enough defined. I reiterate, this is the same movement that a lefty is allowed to make without a balk being called, therefore why not a righty? And BTW would that interpertation along with umpire judgement have a different application from FED to pro rules? [Edited by etbaseball on Apr 15th, 2002 at 03:56 PM]
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Ed
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Mon Apr 15, 2002, 06:31pm
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There is a school of thought that right handed pitchers MUST step off the rubber or complete a jump turn to legally throw to first. The folks who preach this disregard the fact that the rule book does not discriminate against righties.
If, when lifting his leg, he does not hesitate (come to a stop) before moving directly towards first, and does not make any move towards home, I see no balk. But then, I think that right handed pitchers should be treated as fairly as left handed pitchers. Silly me.
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Mon Apr 15, 2002, 10:18pm
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I'll state it the way I always do. View the pitcher from above. IF any part of the leg moves clockwise (that's toward third), the the RH pitcher can't throw to first. This rule is the same in all codes. NCAA describes it best: "The pitcher is committed, upon raising the lead leg, to throw to the base being faced, second base or to the plate. When throwing ... to a base not beig faced, the pitcher must step immediately, directly and gain ground toward that base." (emphasis added)
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Tue Apr 16, 2002, 06:42am
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I go through this constantly with my son (RHP). He gets nailed with balks when he makes no motion to the plate but gos for the pick-off.
FED rules with the pitcher in the Set Position. The RHP gets screwed most of the time because we blues don't give him what he is allowed to by rule. There is no rule that says a RHP has to step off to throw to 1st! Why do we allow coaches to argue this? A RHP has to either lift his leg or use a slide step in order to get his motion going whether he is going to the plate or not. That in itself is not a "motion to the plate". It is part of the pitching mechanic. The LHP has to do the same thing! The RHP has to turn and the LHP does not. It is simple pitching mechanics, people! Now let me ask this. If a RHP lifts his leg, turns and throw to 1st is it deceving the runner? Yes it is. So is the LHP deciving the runner with that great move that everyone loves (a-la Andy Petit)!
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When in doubt, bang 'em out! Ozzy
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Fri Apr 19, 2002, 10:50am
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Are you trying to tell me that it is possible for a RHP to swing his non-pivot foot around behind him and throw the ball to first without motioning to the plate (or in FED rules terminology 6-2-4a "...feinting towards the batter)? No way! Any umpire who allows this move by the pitcher is just asking for headaches.
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"Not all heroes have time to pose for sculptors...some still have papers to grade."
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Fri Apr 19, 2002, 02:21pm
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Jenkins and "The Tee"
. . . will ALWAYS be on the same team on this call.
I respect Garth, I respect Carl . . . however, it has always been and will remain a balk if a right handers first move when raising his non-pivot foot is NOT a movement towards first base. A RH pitcher CANNOT have a "hanging leg" on a move to first base . . . no matter what Carl sez, no matter what Garth sez . . . While pitcher is not REQUIRED to step off or do a jump step (pleeeeeaze watch a major league right hander this weekend and notice that EVERYONE of them either steps back, does a jump turn or uses the famous Greg Maddox "jab step") all MLB pitchers use one or the other. IF a pitcher stays in contact with the pitcher's plate and moves his non-pivot foot he must be moving DIRECTLY to a pick-off move . . . There I feel better now!!!!
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