Should I Stay or Should I go.

[Lawrence.Dorsey]

A little off topic but it fits in the vain of changing the terms of the schedule...

A couple of weeks back I got a call from an umpire in my American Legion association asking me if I could cover a suspended JR Legion game for him. He informed me that the game was in the top of the 2nd when rain halted the game. A new crew was needed as the original crew had a regularly scheduled SR game at another site on the makeup date. When we got there, the teams informed us that "We decided we'll just start all over. Some of the kids here that night are gone and we have some that weren't here." My partner and I would not allow this since the game was being played under FED rules and we were mopping up for another crew. After a little back and forth, we started from the point of suspension.

The kicker was that original PU told me that he never wanted to start the game in the first place as it was obvious rain was moving in and could jeopardize the game. Both coaches urged him to start anyway. In the end, the home club wound up paying 4 full game fees. Oh well...

Lawrence

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Ozzy's umpiring uniform:

I prefer the desert dress for the warmer weather!

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Ozzy's umpiring uniform:

Round brown and TRADOC patch...reminds me of the summer of 2000.

Even though I myself am now a senior NCO, I still get a bit short of breath seeing a picture like that.

[PeteBooth]

Rich now you have your LL hat on. That's the LL mentality not how an umpire business works. (excluding the BIG BOYS which is a horse of a different color)


There is also another very good reason to simply LEAVE. In my area it's not uncommon that I have games scheduled at different fields. We allow for 3 hours a game

Example: I might have a double header scheduled for 10 am / 1 PM and then that night have another game at a different location scheduled for say 7 - 7:30PM. It's one thing if we are delayed 1/2 hour but not 1.5 - 2 hours as in the OP.

Therefore, using Tim's example I would have taken my game FEE which I am entitled to and moved on because I have other games on my schedule.

Umpiring is "not for the kids" It is a BUSINESS just like any other and it is run like a business. If you schedule a plumber to be at your house at 10 AM and when he gets there you tell him you will have to wait 1.5/ 2 hours before you can begin your work, unless the plumber is a friend of yours the clock starts "ticking" at 10 AM and you will be billed accordingly.

If the teams agreed to pay another game FEE as in the OP then assuming I had no other committments I would stay and do the games.

Bottom Line if I have a game scheduled for 5 PM I am required to be there at a minimum of 1/2 hour before time. We are NOT responsible if a coach does not have enough players or the field is unplayable.

Pete Booth

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Matt

Round brown and TRADOC patch...reminds me of the summer of 2000.

Even though I myself am now a senior NCO, I still get a bit short of breath seeing a picture like that.

It was hard enough when I was 17, I couldn't even imagine trying to go through that again now. I would die during the first forced road march.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by UmpireBob

Tim,

After all, it does not sound like it was the kids' fault that the field didn't get prepped.

With all due respect Umpire Bob umpiring is NOT for the kids. It is a BUSINESS, otherwise leagues will "walk all over you"

I am NOT there for the kids. I am there to make certain no one team gains an unfair advantage over another not intended by the rules. Leagues use our service because we show up ON Time each and every game and these leagues do not have the headaches that LL has in scheduling umpires.

It's simple if you are having a lot of rain and ALL fields cannot be worked on then simply cancel the game AHEAD of time. Why waste everyones time or Call the assignor and tell him that the game is running late so that the assignor has enough time to contact the umpires and tell them they do not need to show up at 5 but say 6 / 6:30

If you continue to Wait people will start to expect it and take advantage.

Pete Booth

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Because you can't order the coaches to give you the lineups until the plate meeting.

As to the rule (What constitutes "previous notice" may or may not be part of your contract - if you have one - with the league.):

4.01
Unless the home club shall have given previous notice that the game has been postponed or will be delayed in starting, the umpire, or umpires, shall enter the playing field five minutes before the hour set for the game to begin and proceed directly to home base where they shall be met by the managers of the opposing teams. In sequence --

(a) First, the home manager shall give his batting order to the umpire-in-chief, in duplicate.

(b) Next, the visiting manager shall give his batting order to the umpire-in-chief, in duplicate.



Given that the "ground crew" at most parks has real jobs they don't get to the field much before you do to assess the conditions and get to work fixing as required, your expectation that things be pristine at game time after a day of rain are out of place - and quite naive.

Naive? Maybe in your mind. I'm there to work. If the field isn't ready at gametime, then my contract terms have changed.

Likewise, I've arrived on the field five minutes before gametime to hear that a team hasn't taken batting practice yet. Well, too bad. Game time is 6PM, we start at 6PM, not 6:20PM.

For you and anyone else that thinks I should be flexible, how about I start showing up at 6:20PM for a 6PM start and see how long that's tolerated.

And I would've left even if it was a LL game. Being a volunteer doesn't mean I am going to stand around and wait for a field to get prepped.

[lawump]

I'll give two relatively recent examples:

#1) 3 years ago I showed up at an SEC school for a 12:30 Saturday game. It was pooring. The head coach did not want to cancel (or schedule a doubleheader for Sunday). Every other Division 1 game in a four state area was canceled. We started at approx. 6:30 when the system finally moved out.

The outfield was a lake, but the infield was covered. I was on the plate, but I was not the senior umpire. Rather, I had a long time SEC conference umpire (several World Series, too) as a crew chief. He didn't even think of arguing with the head coach. It was the head coach's call.

#2) Two weeks ago I had an American Legion game scheduled for 7 p.m. on a Friday night. At 6:45 it started lightning. It never rained hard...just on-and-off drizzle, but it never stopped lightning until the home team's legion athletic officer banged it at 8:45. I did not argue with him at all about waiting. It appeared on radar that there was going to be a chance to get it in...but the thunderstorm cell just never moved.

Now with that said, when I was a MiLB umpire I once told a GM: "It's you're call until we get the line-up cards, but let me say this, 'once I get the cards, I'm banging the game because there is no way we're playing on that field.' Now, you go and make any decision you want."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by lawump

I'll give two relatively recent examples:

#1) 3 years ago I showed up at an SEC school for a 12:30 Saturday game. It was pooring. The head coach did not want to cancel (or schedule a doubleheader for Sunday). Every other Division 1 game in a four state area was canceled. We started at approx. 6:30 when the system finally moved out.

The outfield was a lake, but the infield was covered. I was on the plate, but I was not the senior umpire. Rather, I had a long time SEC conference umpire (several World Series, too) as a crew chief. He didn't even think of arguing with the head coach. It was the head coach's call.

#2) Two weeks ago I had an American Legion game scheduled for 7 p.m. on a Friday night. At 6:45 it started lightning. It never rained hard...just on-and-off drizzle, but it never stopped lightning until the home team's legion athletic officer banged it at 8:45. I did not argue with him at all about waiting. It appeared on radar that there was going to be a chance to get it in...but the thunderstorm cell just never moved.

Now with that said, when I was a MiLB umpire I once told a GM: "It's you're call until we get the line-up cards, but let me say this, 'once I get the cards, I'm banging the game because there is no way we're playing on that field.' Now, you go and make any decision you want."

When I work Division I baseball for DI money, I'll wait. In the Legion example, it would depend on what I had going on and when. If it was a 1PM game and I had 7PM concert tickets, I wouldn't wait to start the game until 5PM.

[Lawrence.Dorsey]

If it's a Legion game and some long delay happens, I'll be on the phone with my assignor or asst. assignor and let them make the call about whether I stay or go. I don't have the seniority to arbitrarily decide I'm leaving. In HS games, we'd never wait it out because of school the next day. With that said, I have never really had a situation as described in the OP.

A friend of mine called me last night after a JR Legion game (FED rules) that they waited 1.5 hrs to start as a result of rain. He wasn't thrilled to hang around and wait but he said they played 6.5 complete in 1hr and 20 minutes. This is probably the only field in the area that could have been played on after a storm because it is a D-2 ballpark.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Give me the lineup cards, coaches. Thank you. Game canceled due to field conditions. Oh, BTW, you now owe me a full game fee.

Please tell me how I cannot, by rule, do exactly what I just described in the last paragraph. Thank you.

The coaches dont have to give you the lineup cards until they feel the field of play is ready.... especially if they show up and are expecting a grounds crew... and if they arent going to play you should get AT LEAST travel if not a whole fee for just being there. And you arent contracted to start at a particular time ... what if your working a tournement and you have a rain delay are you going to walk away from a game? if you show up late should someone not pay you even if its out of your control?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

The coaches dont have to give you the lineup cards until they feel the field of play is ready.... especially if they show up and are expecting a grounds crew... and if they arent going to play you should get AT LEAST travel if not a whole fee for just being there. And you arent contracted to start at a particular time ... what if your working a tournement and you have a rain delay are you going to walk away from a game? if you show up late should someone not pay you even if its out of your control?

And I don't have to stay if they aren't ready to give the lineup cards. Trust me. I work for myself in the summer and would never be put in this situation during HS ball because most fields don't have lights. In my college games, I'd stick around, but only because I drive a good way to work those games. If called early with a late start, I would decline if I felt it necessary, even at the college level. I did just that this year when they tried to move a noon start to 4PM (with a 9-inning DH).

One thing about not having a central assignor is that the power shifts a bit to the individual umpire. Sure, they can decide not to hire me again, but at most I could lose one team/school, etc.

If I show up late I don't expect a full fee. I was involved in an accident a few years ago and didn't show up until the 4th inning. I worked for free and told the home team to give the other umpire what they felt was fair for having to go solo. They gave him my check after I declined it about 3 times and he bought me dinner. Fair trade, really.

[CC1352]

has anyone ever heard of a fricking phone. They' re these little things that people talk to each other on. Hey, and get this they're even portable these days. If their is a remote possibility that there could have been a weather related delayed starting time, I'm on the phone talking to the assignor or the field management or even the coaches if I have to, to find out exactly whats going on and when. With fields that look this good from the pictures what in the h--- on you CRYING LIKE BABIES about.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by CC1352

With fields that look this good from the pictures what in the h--- on you CRYING LIKE BABIES about.

Uh, those pictures were taken on a sunny day with the field in perfect condition. This was not the condition of the field on the day of his game.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Would you have left?

I think I would have, although I may have called my assignor first for some guidance. All my games are at least an hour from home, so that extra hour waiting for the grounds crew to prep the field would make me even more insanely late than the double header itself.