Mets v Mariners

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Okay, I've heard enough about the phantom "bump." I've watched the video 5 or 6 times now, from start to finish. After Brian cleaned the plate, he stood up to walk back behind the plate only to find Manuel between Beltran and the catcher. Manuel had no business out there whatsoever. His rat was arguing balls and strikes, so as head of rats he felt it was his duty to bring his ancient butt out there to argue. He is the one initiating contact with Runge by getting in his personal space. You don't get up in someone's face and expect to get away without a bit of contact.

Then, after a lengthy arguement in which Runge was his extra-patient usual self, Manuel started to walk away, still in the ballgame. Then, for some reason, as Runge didn't say a word, Manuel starts back at Runge and gets right up into his grill, nose-to-nose. Then Runge appears to distance himself and walk around Manuel to the right. That's when Manuel tried to block Runge off and a little contact occurred just before Runge gave him the heave-ho.

I saw no agressive bump or contact initiated by Runge, and I looked hard to find it. Fans see what they want to see, and judge situations by their emotions, and NOT by the facts.

The real culprit here was Jerry Manuel for leaving the bench. Beltran was going to get to say his peace and get back in the box, which is more rope than I would give him. Runge was trying to be civil with him, even though he kept running his mouth. Beltran got run for continuing arguing in Runge's face after the Manuel ejection. It wasn't really about balls and strikes at this point, it was about stupid ballplayers thinking that the can just do whatever they want to the umpires without penalty.

Well, I was a very happy M's fan, (not much to cheer about this season), so was in a great mood.

Did we see the same play? IMO, Classic baiting by the umpire, yeah the batter said something in a "non show-n up way". Silence him or toss him, like some have said. But to step up remove the mask, get in the guys face and give an axx chewing, IMO is outta line..

The manager probably couldn't believe his eyes, and came out, not to argue balls and strikes, but to give a deserved Axx chewing himself, for baiting his player. I reacted the same way when I saw Rungee's antics, told my bride "uh oh, here we go, this guys outta line"...

"No, or incidental contact", your kidding right? That my friend was a classic chest bump that would get a player fined and suspended in a heart beat.

The player in return, admitted that he then lost it when the umpire bumped his skipper, said it was by the far the maddest he'd ever been on a ballfield

Unbelievable, if this umpire isn't reprimanded, fined, suspended, I'll poop and fall right over backwards in it...wow.

I think Rungee fell into the dark abyss every umpire fights and strives to keep out of. IMO an umpire must maintain a higher standard than what I saw.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Did we see the same play? IMO, Classic baiting by the umpire, yeah the batter said something in a "non show-n up way". Silence him or toss him, like some have said. But to step up remove the mask, get in the guys face and give an axx chewing, IMO is outta line..

First of all, Beltran did not speak in a "non show-n up way." Where do you get this? He turned his head back to the umpire and looked right at him and began arguing balls and strikes. HE initiated the conversation, not the umpire. When you look back at the umpire and argue, that is showing him up. Players are taught to say their little BS remarks while facing away from the umpire, not to look right at him, making their displeasure obvious to all. He kept it up for a good 10 seconds before Brian had had enough. At that point Brian proceeded to brush the plate, a manuever that most umpires remove their masks to do. Beltran continued to talk sh!t while Brian brushed off the plate. Then like magic, Manuel appeared on the scene, beligerently blocking Brian's pathway.

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

The manager probably couldn't believe his eyes, and came out, not to argue balls and strikes, but to give a deserved Axx chewing himself, for baiting his player. I reacted the same way when I saw Rungee's antics, told my bride "uh oh, here we go, this guys outta line"...

The umpire has the right to talk to any player he wants to, especially when that player starts the confrontation, as Beltran clearly did. The manager has no right to come out on the umpire, and certainly not to deliver an "Axx chewing." Do you let coaches chew you out? Wow. You come out on me and try to chew me out, you had better be wearing asbestos underwear, because I'll light ya a$$ up! Brain gave Manuel every chance to stay in the game, and Beltran was still in the game at that point.

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

"No, or incidental contact", your kidding right? That my friend was a classic chest bump that would get a player fined and suspended in a heart beat.

Classic? He barely brushed past him as he was about to run him. Manuel is the one who got in his path. What, the umpire is supposed to say excuse me and go around the d-head manager now? Look at the play closely, Manuel stepped right into Runge's path. Like I said, I watched this thing over and over, just to make sure I saw what happened.

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

The player in return, admitted that he then lost it when the umpire bumped his skipper, said it was by the far the maddest he'd ever been on a ballfield

Wow, how charitable of the little CSer.

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Unbelievable, if this umpire isn't reprimanded, fined, suspended, I'll poop and fall right over backwards in it...wow.

Get ready to poop, because he didn't do a damn thing out of line. Two clowns got in his business, and he showed great restraint in not running them both sooner.

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

I think Rungee fell into the dark abyss every umpire fights and strives to keep out of. IMO an umpire must maintain a higher standard than what I saw.

Wow, I need some of what you're smokin'.

[SanDiegoSteve]

By the way, Jerry Manuel does not agree. He said he would not want Brian Runge to be fined or suspended, that a simple apology would be fine with him. They both shook hands and were cordial with each other at their next plate meeting. I think the Met's new skipper knows that it wasn't all Brian's fault like everyone is trying to make it seem.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

By the way, Jerry Manuel does not agree. He said he would not want Brian Runge to be fined or suspended, that a simple apology would be fine with him. They both shook hands and were cordial with each other at their next plate meeting. I think the Met's new skipper knows that it wasn't all Brian's fault like everyone is trying to make it seem.

It WAS his fault.... Brain STEPPED to him why would you step at someone to eject them.... you should turn as to makes sure your not going to hit them with your body or your hand.... thats what I have been taught at the camps I have been to and its been on evaluations. so I think trying to defend brian as far as the bump goes is a loosing arguement. However both the manager and beltran were legit ejections

[mbyron]

This quibbling is a little silly, given that we have only a fraction of the facts. Why not see what the league does? Unless Runge is fined or suspended, I think the proper conclusion is that he handled the situation correctly.

I don't suppose all the details will ever be made public. So to reach a detailed conclusion would be whistling in the dark.

[Jurassic Referee]

Apparently Runge apologized to Manuel yesterday for his actions.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06262008...uel_117304.htm

[JR12]

First I see beltran turn his head, look right at Rungee and start jawing.(not looking down) it was obvious to the announcers that he didnt like the call. However Rungee then tried to one up Beltran by speaking to him(mask off) BEFORE cleaning the plate.
Manuel should have went earlier. IMO

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by JR12

First I see beltran turn his head, look right at Rungee and start jawing.(not looking down) it was obvious to the announcers that he didnt like the call. However Rungee then tried to one up Beltran by speaking to him(mask off) BEFORE cleaning the plate.
Manuel should have went earlier. IMO

Am I the only one who thinks if Brian had cleaned the plate THEN spoken to Beltran, Beltran would have gotten the negative press for being aggressive/whiny? IMO, Brian's unmasking, then talking to Beltran, then cleaning the plate is what made him look aggressive, even though his initial intent was to tell Beltran to shut up and keep playing ball. Not to defend Beltran or Manuel at all, because Manuel had NO business leaving the dugout, but despite Brian's intentions I think he LOOKS bad to everybody but umpires who know what he was doing (ie the idiots I heard on XM yesterday who said there was no excuse for him to take off his mask and talk to Beltran because he "wasn't being shown up".)

[ozzy6900]

Well everyone, I didn't loose any sleep, pay or games because of this whole thing. The concerned parties "made nice-nice" and the world moves on! More that I can say for this thread of 5 pages of useless arguing! Get on with your lives, I'm sure that you all have games that you can discuss with the rest of us.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

The player in return, admitted that he then lost it when the umpire bumped his skipper, said it was by the far the maddest he'd ever been on a ballfield

He actually said that? Sad.

Guess he's not ever upset about losing. Might explain the Mets current problems.

[canadaump6]

Sorry guys but I saw the argument on tv, and Runge clearly bumped Manuel. I wasn't impressed with any of their behaviour, and I would suggest a slight pay cut for Runge and a one game suspension for both Manuel and Beltran. That way they can all recieve a consequence but have a chance to move on and get on with baseball the next day.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Sorry guys but I saw the argument on tv, and Runge clearly bumped Manuel. I wasn't impressed with any of their behaviour, and I would suggest a slight pay cut for Runge and a one game suspension for both Manuel and Beltran. That way they can all recieve a consequence but have a chance to move on and get on with baseball the next day.

I think a pay cut would be a horrible idea.

Besides, the umpire's union would never go for a pay cut.

[SAump]

Event: Complaints about bad calls after every close pitch.
Error 1: Clear the matter up by dusting the plate and giving back some lip service.
Error 2: Eject the biggest yardbird immediately for arguing balls and strikes.
Error 3: Stand firm, ignore the yardbirds and tighten their strike zone.
Error 4: Ignore the CS as much as possible and return to your duties asap.
Which would Gilligan choose?

[SAump]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Well, I was a very happy M's fan, (not much to cheer about this season), so was in a great mood.

Did we see the same play? IMO, Classic baiting by the umpire, yeah the batter said something in a "non show-n up way". Silence him or toss him, like some have said. But to step up remove the mask, get in the guys face and give an axx chewing, IMO is outta line..

The manager probably couldn't believe his eyes, and came out, not to argue balls and strikes, but to give a deserved Axx chewing himself, for baiting his player. I reacted the same way when I saw Rungee's antics, told my bride "uh oh, here we go, this guys outta line"...

"No, or incidental contact", your kidding right? That my friend was a classic chest bump that would get a player fined and suspended in a heart beat.

The player in return, admitted that he then lost it when the umpire bumped his skipper, said it was by the far the maddest he'd ever been on a ballfield

Unbelievable, if this umpire isn't reprimanded, fined, suspended, I'll poop and fall right over backwards in it...wow.

I think Rungee fell into the dark abyss every umpire fights and strives to keep out of. IMO an umpire must maintain a higher standard than what I saw.

Disagree with your conclusion.
Yeah thats it, anger management lessons will fix it.
So just how much is the rate for a chest bump or an unmasked glare?
Only poor people think everyone has to pay for every mistake they make.
Only rich people make mistakes all the time and get away with it too.
Only parent, administrators, judge and CEOs decide fair punishment.
But position in life or money does always equal moral ineptitude.
Sometimes the best discipline was knowing you made a mistake and should attempt to never do it again.
Can you accept an apology?

[Dakota]

fyi...

Runge was suspended for one game.

Manuel and Beltran were fined.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releas...=.jsp&c_id=mlb