detached base force circus

[soundedlikeastrike]

I'd never really considered the detached base concerning a force out and the defender get? The same leeway as a runner when a base is detached? I concluded that "yes they do", tag either the base or the spot where the base was?
Had a chukler..
Tonight:
1 man, Adult SP, military teams, (their either great teams or really bad teams). I had both..
Really soft infield, too sandy and no water, those big square pegged safety bases, the insert portion is just maybe three inches smaller than the base itself, anybody over 100 pounds steps on em or slides in, they pop out.
R1, R2, 1 out
Flyball fairly deep RC.
R2 tags, R1 musta thought 2 outs, cause he's going.
R2 sees the ball will fall, takes off popping the bag up a bit.
R1 finally realizing all the back, back, hollering is for him, slides into 2nd pops the bag out about 3 ft towards LF, scrambles up and heads "back".
Throw is coming into SS covering "about 2nd"? Throw draws him out and towards CF, then short hops him and bounces 10'-12' back towards where it came. SS scrambles and gathers the ball, R1 now recognizes the "new" back, back, backs, are again for him, and heads to second.
SS dives towards the detached base as R2 slides towards the now gapping hole, he winds up a bit short, and the diving SS lands about a 1' short of the base, they both make little worm, squirm moves trying to reach two different bases. R2 stops squirming first, so I called him safe.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

I'd never really considered the detached base concerning a force out and the defender get? The same leeway as a runner when a base is detached? I concluded that "yes they do", tag either the base or the spot where the base was?
Had a chukler..
Tonight:
1 man, Adult SP, military teams, (their either great teams or really bad teams). I had both..
Really soft infield, too sandy and no water, those big square pegged safety bases, the insert portion is just maybe three inches smaller than the base itself, anybody over 100 pounds steps on em or slides in, they pop out.
R1, R2, 1 out
Flyball fairly deep RC.
R2 tags, R1 musta thought 2 outs, cause he's going.
R2 sees the ball will fall, takes off popping the bag up a bit.
R1 finally realizing all the back, back, hollering is for him, slides into 2nd pops the bag out about 3 ft towards LF, scrambles up and heads "back".
Throw is coming into SS covering "about 2nd"? Throw draws him out and towards CF, then short hops him and bounces 10'-12' back towards where it came. SS scrambles and gathers the ball, R1 now recognizes the "new" back, back, backs, are again for him, and heads to second.
SS dives towards the detached base as R2 slides towards the now gapping hole, he winds up a bit short, and the diving SS lands about a 1' short of the base, they both make little worm, squirm moves trying to reach two different bases. R2 stops squirming first, so I called him safe.

OBR: You must touch the spot where the base is supposed to be.

7.08(c) APPROVED RULING: (1) If the impact of a runner breaks a base loose from its position, no play can be made on that runner at that base if he had reached the base safely.
APPROVED RULING: (2) If a base is dislodged from its position during a play, any following runner on the same play shall be considered as touching or occupying the base if, in the umpire’s judgment, he touches or occupies the point marked by the dislodged bag.


LL: You can touch either the spot or the dislodged base.

[Ump29]

I always have a problem interpreting "touches or occupies the spot marked by the dislodged base". Does this mean the spot where the base should be or where it actually is ? Makes a difference.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Ump29

I always have a problem interpreting "touches or occupies the spot marked by the dislodged base". Does this mean the spot where the base should be or where it actually is ? Makes a difference.

It means the spot where the bag should be. The base is the point on the ground - the bag is the marker of the point.

2.00 A BASE is one of four points which must be touched by a runner in order to score a run; more usually applied to the canvas bags and the rubber plate which mark the base points.

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by Ump29

I always have a problem interpreting "touches or occupies the spot marked by the dislodged base". Does this mean the spot where the base should be or where it actually is ? Makes a difference.

The spot where the base should be. Reading a rulebook would help you clear this up.

[NYBLUE]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

OBR: You must touch the spot where the base is supposed to be.

7.08(c) APPROVED RULING: (1) If the impact of a runner breaks a base loose from its position, no play can be made on that runner at that base if he had reached the base safely.
APPROVED RULING: (2) If a base is dislodged from its position during a play, any following runner on the same play shall be considered as touching or occupying the base if, in the umpire’s judgment, he touches or occupies the point marked by the dislodged bag.


LL: You can touch either the spot or the dislodged base.

Hmmm... even if the disloged base is inside the baseline and a runner touching that disloged base would shorten the distance to the next base(s)?

Hypothetical obviously because I can't see this happening...

i.e. 2nd base is dislodged and comes to rest 3 feet closer to the pitchers mound.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by NYBLUE

Hmmm... even if the disloged base is inside the baseline and a runner touching that disloged base would shorten the distance to the next base(s)?

Hypothetical obviously because I can't see this happening...

i.e. 2nd base is dislodged and comes to rest 3 feet closer to the pitchers mound.

Yes. In LL you may touch the base point or the dislodged bag.

[Dave Reed]

Rich,

The times, they are achangin'. A dislodged bag is no longer a base for following runners. Here's part of rule 7.07 (c) as given in the 2008 RIM:

7.07 (c) APPROVED RULING: (2) If a base is dislodged from its position during a play, any following runner on the same play shall be considered as touching or occupying the base if, in the umpire’s judgment, that runner touches or occupies the point marked by the dislodged base.

The 2006 Green Book (the latest one I have handy) reads "that runner touches or occupies the dislodged bag, or the point marked by the dislodged base.

The older rule 7.07(c) had conflicted with Rule 1.06, but now is consistent. 1.06 clarifies that both the fielder and the runner should use the base point.

1.06 NOTE (1): If the impact of a runner breaks a base loose from its position, no play can be made on that runner at that base, if the runner had reached the base safely. If there is continual action involving a subsequent runner, the base plate becomes the actual base for rending of the umpire's decision.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Rich,

The times, they are achangin'. A dislodged bag is no longer a base for following runners. Here's part of rule 7.07 (c) as given in the 2008 RIM:

7.07 (c) APPROVED RULING: (2) If a base is dislodged from its position during a play, any following runner on the same play shall be considered as touching or occupying the base if, in the umpire’s judgment, that runner touches or occupies the point marked by the dislodged base.

The 2006 Green Book (the latest one I have handy) reads "that runner touches or occupies the dislodged bag, or the point marked by the dislodged base.

The older rule 7.07(c) had conflicted with Rule 1.06, but now is consistent. 1.06 clarifies that both the fielder and the runner should use the base point.

1.06 NOTE (1): If the impact of a runner breaks a base loose from its position, no play can be made on that runner at that base, if the runner had reached the base safely. If there is continual action involving a subsequent runner, the base plate becomes the actual base for rending of the umpire's decision.

The 2008 green book still has the dislodged base part in the AR for the rule.

How do you touch the base plate if there is no base plate? We (as do most in our area) use the SoftTouch bases which don't have a base plate - they have a 7" square box in the ground that the base mounts into.


BTW, it's 7.08(c)