Bob Jenkins at the Plate

[Tim C]

This may take a little time:

We had an extensive pre-game over lunch and discussed many, many things.

Because of state training we DO NOT go out on all fly balls. (PBUC goes out on all fly balls with three man crew and CCA does not). At our pre-game we talked extensively about going out when needed especially if the number of umpires left were equal to or greater than the runners.

We were told that the field was fully enclosed. The only areas of concern were the tarp area and both bullpens.

Because of the tight game schedule we DID NOT walk around the field (we did do this at all other local playoff games) and check for “difficult” areas.

Now the play and my thinking:

The play was in the top of the first inning in the Oregon 6A State Championship Game. The ball was hit hard by a right handed batter and it squirreled between F3 and the first base bag. It was clearly NOT a fair/foul type ball.

As I turned to pause and read I saw the ball slicing towards the RF corner. I also noticed at that instant that there was a banner hanging from the inside of the fence. I determined at that time that with a single batter runner and two additional umpires that it would look extremely bad if some how, when that rapidly moving ground ball hit the bottom support of the fence, if it hopped up behind the banner there would need to be a call.

I decided at that time this was a potential "trouble ball."

I decided to go out at that point.

One runner. Two umpires. It seemed logical too me.

Again, I WISH I had given a “SAFE” sign when the ball bounced off the fence and came back to the fielder. Other than that I have no reason to question the decision I made.

Question to all of you:

Was what I did "bad"?

The 20 or so High School umpires in attendence seemed satidfied that I made a decision and stuck with it (there were also comments about my speed surprising them since I am a "Fat and OLD" man).

What are the negative possibilities tied to my going out (please note the PU did fill in behind me as mechanics dictate)?

[Rich]

You know I'm not questioning your decision here - I just knew it would show that there was a reason you went and that all of the back-seat umpires who question such things should just listen

I agree: Bases empty? No brainer, go with the ball. If two umpires can't handle one runner, then they don't belong on this game. If there's a tarp and bullpens and banners that can cause problems, well, then just go.

Now, to continue, if it was R1+R2, would you have gone? (I find this question more interesting actually, since going on your play is really a no-brainer once you now the bases were empty).

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by Tim C

This may take a little time:

We had an extensive pre-game over lunch and discussed many, many things.

Because of state training we DO NOT go out on all fly balls. (PBUC goes out on all fly balls with three man crew and CCA does not). At our pre-game we talked extensively about going out when needed especially if the number of umpires left were equal to or greater than the runners.

We were told that the field was fully enclosed. The only areas of concern were the tarp area and both bullpens.

Because of the tight game schedule we DID NOT walk around the field (we did do this at all other local playoff games) and check for “difficult” areas.

Now the play and my thinking:

The play was in the top of the first inning in the Oregon 6A State Championship Game. The ball was hit hard by a right handed batter and it squirreled between F3 and the first base bag. It was clearly NOT a fair/foul type ball.

As I turned to pause and read I saw the ball slicing towards the RF corner. I also noticed at that instant that there was a banner hanging from the inside of the fence. I determined at that time that with a single batter runner and two additional umpires that it would look extremely bad if some how, when that rapidly moving ground ball hit the bottom support of the fence, if it hopped up behind the banner there would need to be a call.

I decided at that time this was a potential "trouble ball."

I decided to go out at that point.

One runner. Two umpires. It seemed logical too me.

Again, I WISH I had given a “SAFE” sign when the ball bounced off the fence and came back to the fielder. Other than that I have no reason to question the decision I made.

Question to all of you:

Was what I did "bad"?

The 20 or so High School umpires in attendence seemed satidfied that I made a decision and stuck with it (there were also comments about my speed surprising them since I am a "Fat and OLD" man).

What are the negative possibilities tied to my going out (please note the PU did fill in behind me as mechanics dictate)?

Makes sense to me... all you are giving up is YOUR look at a touch of first base, an F3 OBS, or a long round and retreat to 1st with a snap throw behind the runner.

Yes, those things may be more likely to happen than a ball in a banner, but they are all things that PU should be able to see coming up the line or have time to get in position for. The ball in the banner, not so sure your PU would be looking for that if you came in...

[LakeErieUmp]

I don't know that there's ever a problem going out so long as well tell our partner loudly enough on the way.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Tee,

I think you made the right decision, as there was potential trouble with the banner.

The only negative is that you stayed out, when it would have looked sharp to hustle back in foul ground towards home, but that's a helluva lot of running for an old fat guy!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

no it wouldnt've... this was 3-man. Once you are out you are out. In 2-man you can circle back but not 3 or more.

I know the mechanic, as I have worked many 3 and 4 man games over the many years I umpired.

I actually misread what Tee said:

"Again, I WISH I had given a “SAFE” sign when the ball bounced off the fence and came back to the fielder."

I misread it as Tee wishing he had came back into the field. It was a Senior Moment. Early onset of Mad Cow .

[LakeErieUmp]

By the way - "fat, old guys" never concern me. Fat young do however.

[RPatrino]

Whew, I'm safe then.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Whew, I'm safe then.

Same here!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Same here!

I'm alright then too, I guess!

[David B]

Tee

NOt bad at all. Looks like it was a trouble ball, you have two other umpires who can handle everything else, you went out and made certain.

IMO, that's "good" umpiring, not bad.

When in doubt, we always tell our guys go out. There are always more problems in games when the umpire does NOT go out than with the umpire going out and making certain.

Thanks
David

[Tim C]

"Also, IF you went out on that and did not go out on play starting at 1:56, "

I was out on the play when the RF lost the ball in the sun @ 1:56 I am just not in frame.

In fact I stayed out until we recognized the F9 was not seriously injured on the play.

Regards,

[Tim C]

Chris, I don't have to justify anything to anyone.

Someone asked "why did you go out?" and I answered how my thinking went.

I will now leave the thread: some think I did alright some think I am a hack.

That is the gamble anyone takes that posts a video of a game where they worked.

BTW: The Pac-10 evaluator at the game had no problem that I went out.

Regards,

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Chris_Hickman

I think that Tim is trying to justify why he went out rather than saying "Hey.. I misread the play". His evaluator was right to question his act. If I told my D2 evaluator... hey...3 umps..1 runner..why wouldnt I go out?? My evaluator would laugh in my face. I dont think that this thread would have gotten over 60 hits if Tim would have just said.. "I had my head up my a$$ on that one..ha ha sorry guys". Now it didnt really hurt anything by going out on that play I guess but part of "moving up" is play recognition. I work quite a bit of three man and once in a while I get a brain fart and muck up a read. But I never make up any excuses. If you dont work alot of 3 man... it can be a nightmare. I think this post has run out its course. If UES wants to give us his 3 man experience..thats his deal. But after reading his post, it sounds like he does have a "clue".

Why would the evaluator laugh in your face? Because that particular line of reasoning isn't on his little "checklist?"

I guess we'll agree to disagree, then. U1 is more useful going out there than watching a touch of first. The plate umpire can easily do that.

How could he have "mucked up a read?" It was a GROUND ball. There was nothing, really, to read there.

[RPatrino]

UES, I happen to believe that Tim made the correct choice in going out on that trouble ball. We may have to agree to disagree. You do what you need to do to advance in your area, I will do what I need to do in mine. Best of luck to you and take care.