Neighborhood Play

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Please tell me that you only officiate children's ball! I would hate to think that you officiate on the 90' diamiond and are asking this question.

Yes, at this age level the "neighborhood play" is correct.

I only officiate HS and NCAA ball and I don't play the neighborhood anymore. Isn't the FPSR supposed to eliminate unpredictable takeout slides? If a fielder can't touch the base and get out of the way of a fielder sliding directly in, it's not my problem.

[PeteBooth]

From the OP

wood bat ball w/ American League rules

NO FPSR in Straight OBR

Therefore, are you going to allow the "neigborhood" in a game played by OBR rules?

Pete Booth

[Rich]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

From the OP

wood bat ball w/ American League rules

NO FPSR in Straight OBR

Therefore, are you going to allow the "neigborhood" in a game played by OBR rules?

Pete Booth

I'm not going to look for a missed base, but if it slaps me in the face, I'm going to call the runner safe. FPSR or no FPSR.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

From the OP

wood bat ball w/ American League rules

NO FPSR in Straight OBR

Therefore, are you going to allow the "neigborhood" in a game played by OBR rules?

Pete Booth

Pete,
Is there any amateur baseball league, regardless of rule set, that does not play with some sort of modified FPSR?
Unless you are doing pro ball F4 and F6 are protected by rule. I don't think we need to be further coddling them. If we're going to make R1 live by the rules we ought to make F4/F6 live by the rules.

[LMan]

this discussion appears to be veering away from the 'call the game they expect' by Mr Porter (IIRC, my memory may be hazy) article we are familiar with. Would that be the case?

Would you call a breaking ball in the dirt (with dust cloud) a strike, if you thought it crossed the batter's front knee?

Would you call a strike if F2 set up his mitt 2 balls (or pick your personal limit) outside and F1 nailed it with a fastball?

Just asking...I'm mildly surprised at who's arguing which POV here.

Originally Posted by LMan

this discussion appears to be veering away from the 'call the game they expect' by Mr Porter (IIRC, my memory may be hazy) article we are familiar with. Would that be the case?

Would you call a breaking ball in the dirt (with dust cloud) a strike, if you thought it crossed the batter's front knee?

Would you call a strike if F2 set up his mitt 2 balls (or pick your personal limit) outside and F1 nailed it with a fastball?

Just asking...I'm mildly surprised at who's arguing which POV here.

Good point!

Just want to check. Are you one of those guys that won't call a curve ball caught at the belt? What about the fastball at the letters. BOTH are for sure strikes that few call, even though NCAA and NFHS wants these to be called strikes.

I call the high strike. It is hittable, and hittable for POWER! The low crap is bad for quick games. The angle the ball comes off the bat means a lot of hooks and spins, which means bad fielding.

So, shall we just call the WHOLE strike zone? LOL Nobody is going to do that, except in Little League.

In my mind, a bit of play in the strike zone is very different than phantom plays. There is no way for the offense to play against phantom plays, and these phantom plays are always "given" when the defense seems to have enough time to do them right.

With strike zone difference, it is a matter of the offense being able to work with/against it. A pitch 3" outside is VERY hittable for power. The low crap in the dirt is virtually un-hittable unless the batter gets VERY lucky.

So, while I will require a catcher to present a good looking strike to get a call, I will not give the phantom tag and neighborhood play. I think they are bad for learning baseball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rei

Good point!

Just want to check. Are you one of those guys that won't call a curve ball caught at the belt? What about the fastball at the letters. BOTH are for sure strikes that few call, even though NCAA and NFHS wants these to be called strikes.

I call the high strike. It is hittable, and hittable for POWER! The low crap is bad for quick games. The angle the ball comes off the bat means a lot of hooks and spins, which means bad fielding.

So, shall we just call the WHOLE strike zone? LOL Nobody is going to do that, except in Little League.

I hate to break it to you, I call the entire strike zone as my judgment can call it and I have very little if any problems. I also have not worked a LL game since 1998 and I have not had any major problems.

I think we worry too much as umpires what people are going to think. I agree on some level that we should call the game a certain way, but calling balls and strikes, out and safe calls are some of the easiest things you can do because you have one call or the other. And the last time I checked there was not instant replay on some dirt patch they call a baseball field at the level most of us work. Even if you work a D1 game there are not many cameras or some fancy software to determine if you are an inch off the plate or if the 3rd cleat in the middle was on the base or not. In baseball is more about consistency and if a player cannot make a routine play, then you have to decide if they deserve what they earned. I have never had a problem calling the game the way I do and it certainly has not hurt my career. And I can guarantee you I have also not tried as hard as most people here seem to do.

Peace

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by rei

Good point!

Just want to check. Are you one of those guys that won't call a curve ball caught at the belt? What about the fastball at the letters. BOTH are for sure strikes that few call, even though NCAA and NFHS wants these to be called strikes.

I call the high strike. It is hittable, and hittable for POWER! The low crap is bad for quick games. The angle the ball comes off the bat means a lot of hooks and spins, which means bad fielding.

So, shall we just call the WHOLE strike zone? LOL Nobody is going to do that, except in Little League.

In my mind, a bit of play in the strike zone is very different than phantom plays. There is no way for the offense to play against phantom plays, and these phantom plays are always "given" when the defense seems to have enough time to do them right.

With strike zone difference, it is a matter of the offense being able to work with/against it. A pitch 3" outside is VERY hittable for power. The low crap in the dirt is virtually un-hittable unless the batter gets VERY lucky.

So, while I will require a catcher to present a good looking strike to get a call, I will not give the phantom tag and neighborhood play. I think they are bad for learning baseball.

More rubbish

So in other words, you will call it exactly like you think it should be unless you feel differently about how it should be. Good Luck Mr. Perfect, well maybe not always perfect or at least perfect when you think you should be perfect, I think.

Bottom line, if it works for you go with. The neighborhood play was accepted and expected in the leagues I worked.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by rei

Good point!

Just want to check. Are you one of those guys that won't call a curve ball caught at the belt?

I call those every time.

What about the fastball at the letters.

Bottom half of the letters? often

..and yes, I've caught some grief for both. Meh.

It is hittable, and hittable for POWER! The low crap is bad for quick games. The angle the ball comes off the bat means a lot of hooks and spins, which means bad fielding.

So, shall we just call the WHOLE strike zone? LOL Nobody is going to do that, except in Little League.

I never said that, in fact, my post implies I would not. I won't call a dirt ball a strike whether it nicked the zone or not. Eeeeeeeeehhveryone knows a dirt ball is too low, Blue!

In my mind, a bit of play in the strike zone is very different than phantom plays. There is no way for the offense to play against phantom plays, and these phantom plays are always "given" when the defense seems to have enough time to do them right.

With strike zone difference, it is a matter of the offense being able to work with/against it. A pitch 3" outside is VERY hittable for power. The low crap in the dirt is virtually un-hittable unless the batter gets VERY lucky.

So, while I will require a catcher to present a good looking strike to get a call, I will not give the phantom tag and neighborhood play. I think they are bad for learning baseball.

I will agree with a bit of your philosophy regarding the strike zone being a matter of interpretation, whereas the pivot man in a DP either touched the bag, or he did not.

However, I would reject your stated rationale for your zone...it all reads as coaching to me, and I don't see a consulting fee tacked onto my game check. {puts on his Rut hat} I could care less what's 'hittable' and what's not, and it's not my job to care about the players learning baseball techniques. That's the coaches job. If the teams learn a little about the rules along the way, its a bonus.