Advice needed on "Hands part of the bat" myth

[johnnyg08]

reviving this thread just as a nice piece of easy reading...anybody had a coach come out and question this one, this season?

[Kevin Finnerty]

I umpire and I coach.

As a coach, I had what should be a knowledgeable PONY umpire call a foul when a pitch hit my player on the back of the hand as he tried to lean away.

Umpire Tom: "Foul ball! Batter, back in the box."
Me (quietly and patiently): "Tom, the ball hit him, not the bat."
Tom: "Kevin, it hit his hand; the hands are part of the bat."
Me: [shakes head no]
Tom: "You're an umpire; I'm surprised you don't know that."
Me: [raised eyebrows, incredulous grin]

(Arguing in public with a guy like that in front of others is a sign of stupidity)

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I umpire and I coach.

As a coach, I had what should be a knowledgeable PONY umpire call a foul when a pitch hit my player on the back of the hand as he tried to lean away.

Umpire Tom: "Foul ball! Batter, back in the box."
Me (quietly and patiently): "Tom, the ball hit him, not the bat."
Tom: "Kevin, it hit his hand; the hands are part of the bat."
Me: [shakes head no]
Tom: "You're an umpire; I'm surprised you don't know that."
Me: [raised eyebrows, incredulous grin]

(Arguing in public with a guy like that in front of others is a sign of stupidity)

great story!! i can visualize this discussion at baseball park america

[RogersUmp]

I was trying to think where a myth like this would originate? Who thought this one up? All I could come up with is it makes the call easier for the lazy umpire. You don't have to determine if the ball hit the hands or the bat because it's all the same call. Somewhere on a sandlot field someone proabably made it up to make the call easier...it's always a foul ball and requires no determination if the ball hit the bat or the hands.

TwoBits - I think posting the 40 myths at the little league ballpark is a great idea! Hopefully people will share their wealth of new knowledge!!

[Kevin Finnerty]

A parent at a recent game after I call a guy out on a banger: "Come on, Blue, tie goes to the runner!"

Sideline conversation with coach during a substitution: "You know, Casey [his actual name], your parents combine more words with less knowledge than any group of parents in the greater Los Angeles area."

Reaction: couldn't stop laughing long enough to respond. Every time I looked at him the rest of the day and after the game, he started chuckling.

[Forest Ump]

I think you can count on the rules myths coming up in any youth game. That's where the myths thrive until they can bubble to the surface and get shot down by a good umpire.

I called an 11-12 yo game last month. The coach wanted a strike because the batter did not pull the bat back on a bunt attempt. Same coach in another game claimed he could change the batting order if the batters had not come up yet. I make it a point to quietly tell the coach the proper rule. If he becomes a rat, I'm not so quite.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

I think you can count on the rules myths coming up in any youth game. That's where the myths thrive until they can bubble to the surface and get shot down by a good umpire.

I called an 11-12 yo game last month. The coach wanted a strike because the batter did not pull the bat back on a bunt attempt. Same coach in another game claimed he could change the batting order if the batters had not come up yet. I make it a point to quietly tell the coach the proper rule. If he becomes a rat, I'm not so quite.

The parents at premier varsity games blather as mindlessly as any youth crowd. And I can assert that there is an occasional coach who is as lacking in knowledge as possible and still be allowed to coach kids.

Another recent encounter:

Coach: "I played pro ball for 12 years for four different organizations, and I have never seen that call."
Me: "That's great. How much experience do you have with high school?"

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by RogersUmp

I was trying to think where a myth like this would originate? Who thought this one up? ...

RogersUmp,

I do not know the origin of this myth, but perhaps its from:

Originally Posted by Laws of Cricket

8. Contact with the ball
In these Laws,
(a) reference to the bat shall imply that the bat is held in the batsman’s hand or a glove worn on his hand, unless stated otherwise.

(b) contact between the ball and
either (i) the bat itself
or (ii) the batsman’s hand holding the bat
or (iii) any part of a glove worn on the batsman’s hand holding the bat
or (iv) any additional materials permitted under 3, 5 or 6
shall be regarded as the ball striking or touching the bat, or being struck by the bat.

Law 6 (The bat) - Laws - Laws of Cricket - Laws & Spirit - Lord's

JM

[Aging_Arbiter]

Two bits ~ an example I like to use for coaches and umpires alike: If the hands are part of the bat, and only the offense can use a bat......Coach, when your team is on defense, they have to leave their hands in the dugout.

[dash_riprock]

Whenever I hear "tie goes to the runner" I answer with "I guess that's where the expression 'tieing out a base hit' comes from."

[Steve87]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

RogersUmp,

I do not know the origin of this myth, but perhaps its from:


Law 6 (The bat) - Laws - Laws of Cricket - Laws & Spirit - Lord's

JM

JM your are done memorizing NFHS, CCA and OBR and have now moved on to Cricket?

I tip my hat to you. We gotta work a game together soon, and I'll buy the post game refreshments.

[Blue37]

I was listening to a MLB game as I was on the road yesterday (Braves? Reds? can't remember who was playing) and a pitch ran in on the batter. The umpire said it hit the knob of the bat and called it a foul ball. One announcer said the replay clearly showed it hit the hand and the other guy said it was a foul ball because he was tightly gripping the bat when it hit him and, if you are tightly gripping the bat when hit on the hand, it is a foul ball.

I almost ran off the road.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Blue37

I was listening to a MLB game as I was on the road yesterday (Braves? Reds? can't remember who was playing) and a pitch ran in on the batter. The umpire said it hit the knob of the bat and called it a foul ball. One announcer said the replay clearly showed it hit the hand and the other guy said it was a foul ball because he was tightly gripping the bat when it hit him and, if you are tightly gripping the bat when hit on the hand, it is a foul ball.

I almost ran off the road.

Ha! Lemme do a quick search of OBR for "tightly gripping the bat."

[TwoBits]

Wow, one of my posts being lifted from the dead. I feel special.

Due to the enormous amount of rain this year, I haven't had the game load has I've had in the past, and haven't heard this one yet this year. Of course, there is still the summer baseball season...

[SethPDX]

I heard it this season.

Couple innings later, from the same coach, I hear, "You called that a swing? That wasn't a swing! I want you to appeal it to the other umpire!"