Advice needed on "Hands part of the bat" myth

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Heh, heh! I guess I would never be able to umpire in Missouri, because if a coach pulls out a rule book on me, he's done!

This is probably one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of - making a coach pull a rule book out on an umpire!

That's not exactly how it works. If a coach feels we made a mistake in the application of the rules, he requests we talk it between the umpires. If we decide in a way he still thinks is incorrect, he states he's protesting the call. The coach then has 10 minutes to use materials (see #3 below) to find our mistake. If the mistake is found, we fix it. If not, the decision stands.

Originally Posted by MSHSAA Baseball Manual

G. PROTEST PROCEDURE (MSHSAA Board Policy): The Board of Directors
adopted the following Policy, in March, 1997, to address protests.
The Board acknowledges that mistakes are made by umpires in judgment
and even sometimes in misapplication of game rules. However, the
decisions rendered by umpires at the contest site are to be final and any
further process other than the one outlined below would not truly serve a
useful purpose in the overall scope of high school athletics.
1. Within the procedures established within each individual sport rule
code, the head coach must request a review of an umpire's application
of a rule through appropriate channels.
2. If, after the review is complete, the coach still believes there has been
a misapplication of a rule by an umpire(s), the coach shall then file a
formal verbal protest with the game umpires who will then notify the
opposing coach immediately of the protest. A coach shall not protest
a decision of judgment.
3. Following this notification of protest, the head coach shall be allowed
approximately ten minutes to use his/her National Federation Rules
Book, National Federation Case Book, MSHSAA Rules Meeting Announcements
and/or MSHSAA Sport Manual to locate and show the
game umpire(s) the appropriate rule reference which clarifies a misapplication
of the game rule. If the head coach does not have personal
copies of the above mentioned materials at the game site or the
specific rule reference(s) or case book play(s) cannot be located
within the maximum allowable ten minutes, the protest shall automatically
be disallowed and the game shall continue from the point of interruption.
If a rule reference(s) or case book play(s) is found that
indicates a misapplication of a rule has occurred, the umpire’s decision
shall be corrected at that time before any further action occurs,
and the game shall be resumed from the point of interruption after the
correction as provided in the contest rules. When appropriate, the
game umpires may assist the head coach in locating appropriate rule
and case book references.
4. All protests shall be resolved at the site before any further game action
occurs.
5. Protests that are not filed in a timely manner by that sport rules code
shall be automatically disallowed.
6. The MSHSAA Board of Directors and/or Staff shall not review game
protests.
NOTE: Protests concerning matters of an official's judgment shall
NOT be considered.

[BayStateRef]

Is there a head umpire for the league? Or a commissioner? I would get this resolved with him and have him inform all the umpires of the rule. Or..if it happens that often...make sure to bring it up in the pre-game conference. Get it resolved before it happens.

[bluezebra]

"Hold a bat away from your body. Release the bat. Did your hand fall with the bat? No? Now, do you still believe the hand is part of the bat? No? Thank you."

Bob

[johnnyg08]

reviving this thread just as a nice piece of easy reading...anybody had a coach come out and question this one, this season?

[Kevin Finnerty]

I umpire and I coach.

As a coach, I had what should be a knowledgeable PONY umpire call a foul when a pitch hit my player on the back of the hand as he tried to lean away.

Umpire Tom: "Foul ball! Batter, back in the box."
Me (quietly and patiently): "Tom, the ball hit him, not the bat."
Tom: "Kevin, it hit his hand; the hands are part of the bat."
Me: [shakes head no]
Tom: "You're an umpire; I'm surprised you don't know that."
Me: [raised eyebrows, incredulous grin]

(Arguing in public with a guy like that in front of others is a sign of stupidity)

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I umpire and I coach.

As a coach, I had what should be a knowledgeable PONY umpire call a foul when a pitch hit my player on the back of the hand as he tried to lean away.

Umpire Tom: "Foul ball! Batter, back in the box."
Me (quietly and patiently): "Tom, the ball hit him, not the bat."
Tom: "Kevin, it hit his hand; the hands are part of the bat."
Me: [shakes head no]
Tom: "You're an umpire; I'm surprised you don't know that."
Me: [raised eyebrows, incredulous grin]

(Arguing in public with a guy like that in front of others is a sign of stupidity)

great story!! i can visualize this discussion at baseball park america

[Aging_Arbiter]

Two bits ~ an example I like to use for coaches and umpires alike: If the hands are part of the bat, and only the offense can use a bat......Coach, when your team is on defense, they have to leave their hands in the dugout.

[dash_riprock]

Whenever I hear "tie goes to the runner" I answer with "I guess that's where the expression 'tieing out a base hit' comes from."

[Blue37]

I was listening to a MLB game as I was on the road yesterday (Braves? Reds? can't remember who was playing) and a pitch ran in on the batter. The umpire said it hit the knob of the bat and called it a foul ball. One announcer said the replay clearly showed it hit the hand and the other guy said it was a foul ball because he was tightly gripping the bat when it hit him and, if you are tightly gripping the bat when hit on the hand, it is a foul ball.

I almost ran off the road.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Blue37

I was listening to a MLB game as I was on the road yesterday (Braves? Reds? can't remember who was playing) and a pitch ran in on the batter. The umpire said it hit the knob of the bat and called it a foul ball. One announcer said the replay clearly showed it hit the hand and the other guy said it was a foul ball because he was tightly gripping the bat when it hit him and, if you are tightly gripping the bat when hit on the hand, it is a foul ball.

I almost ran off the road.

Ha! Lemme do a quick search of OBR for "tightly gripping the bat."

[Chris_Hickman]

Tell the ump " Look blue... go to Dick's Sporting Goods, walk to the team sports section and look at the bats that are on the rack. Are there any hands attached to bat handle?" Then throw in a " I heard Lenscrafters is having a 2 for 1 sale this weekend..so you and your partner can save some money" Yah.... umpires love to hear that!

[RogersUmp]

Anyone watching the nationally televised Twins-Brewers game on Sunday got two opportunities to learn that the "hands are not part of the bat". Crede got nailed on the hand and took first...had to leave the game eventually. Then, Mauer got hit inside on the hand. This one was more interesting, though, as the PU (Reliford, I believe) called it a foul ball (sure sounded like it). But, the Twins manager came out to argue and kept pointing to the batter's hand and it didn't look like PU wanted to look and was going to stand his ground. Then, Gardenhire, in classic form, whipped off his cap and started arguing more intensely and PU finally looked at the plunked hand of the batter and changed his call. This, of course, brought out the opposing manager who didn't like the call reversal (although PU made the correct call).

The announcers were terrible through the entire episode with Steve Phillips actually saying that Macha, the 'vicitim' of the correct call, should have argued the reversal more ardently and as a player he (Phillips) would have kicked him when he returned to the bench for not doing so. What they should have said was, "See! The hands are NOT part of the bat!"