NFHS and MLB/OBR balk rule and the hidden ball play.

[socalblue1]

Mark,

The non-calls were all correct - no way to have a balk on a dead ball. Had the PU put the ball into play thinking F1 was in contact it would STILL not be a balk, as the ball could not have legally been made live.

Intent is exactly the same in all rule code (OBR, FED & NCAA). The actual location of F1 in relation to the rubber (Pitchers plate) may differer slightly (On or astride vs within 5ft, etc) but all have three requirements for a balk to be called:

1. Live ball
2. Runner(s) on base
3. F1 is on or astride the rubber without the ball

[mbyron]

I agree, good no-calls. Those defenses don't know how to run the hidden ball trick. They probably do it that way because they have had umpires who put the ball in play when it was held by a fielder, and then didn't know how to fix it.

[David B]

And as an umpire, I just make it hard for them to do anything like this, if F6 has the ball I'm standing there facing him and looking at him etc.,

That's why we always tell our young umpire, never take your eyes off the ball.

Always hard on PU because he also has to know where the ball is following a dead ball since he puts the ball in play.

Thanks
David

[papablue]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

...Had the PU put the ball into play thinking F1 was in contact it would STILL not be a balk, as the ball could not have legally been made live.

Respectfully disagree, socal. Granted, you do not want to make the ball live unless you are certain F1 is in possession of the ball while on the rubber, but if you happen to put it in play anyway when F1 toes the rubber, you still have live action. Now, if you discover that F1 doesn't have the ball, he should still get balked.

The Hidden Ball Trick can never work once time has been called. It's either going to be discovered while the ball is dead, or the pitcher is going to get balked once it's live.

John

[mbyron]

Wrong. The ball cannot be made live unless F1 has it and is on the rubber. If PU calls "Play!" by mistake, it is still not "really" live. Call time and fix it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Wrong. The ball cannot be made live unless F1 has it and is on the rubber. If PU calls "Play!" by mistake, it is still not "really" live. Call time and fix it.

Agreed.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed.

Double agree. Just like Tim, with whom I agree and who agrees with me who agrees with Bob J.

Agreed?