nobody called timeout!!!

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

rei:

Let me get this straight, R1 is on third and you get out in front of home plate with your tuchus facing the F1. R1 comes running home and touches home while you are cleaning the plate. F1 just stands there on the mound with the ball in his hand because he does not want to drill you in the tuchus. Oh boy, I do not know if I want to be around for that fun the ensues after you tell F1's coach the that run counts. Then again, I just might tell F1 to go ahead an pitch so you truely will be a numb nuts.

MTD, Sr.

The ONLY time I call time to clean the plate is NEVER. I do not start cleaning the plate when action is still going on or has JUST ended. Usually, because I hustle and get to the spots I am supposed to be at, I have to walk to the plate, which is even MORE time to make sure all playing action is done. If when I walk up, the pitcher is on the mound with his foot on the rubber ( I have NEVER seen this in 23 years!) I would simply let play resume and call the plate I can see, if you catch my drift. I have NEVER had a pitcher try to pitch while I was cleaning the plate. IT JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN, and any umpire who HAS had that happen to them must have lost control of the game LONG before he needed to clean the plate, and probably lost the respect of every player long ago! While some may joke about possibly doing that, I doubt that ANY player I have umpired in the last several years would ever consider pitching while I am cleaning the plate.

If R3 decides to try to steal, I am a big boy and can see him coming and am fit enough to take a few steps out of the way before he can run that 90'. I will call the play, then probably clean the plate again, although sometimes that slide at home actually does the job for me!

Have fun doing JV.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by rei

And by the way, our commissioner here is a 40 year umpire veteran, past PAC-10 umpires, and current PAC-10 evaluator, and is the one that told me years ago "Don't kill the ball to clean the plate numbnutz. Let your partner keep an eye on things".

Also ask your partner to remove the white thing from your orfice while telling the defensive coach his team has to be more cognizant of what is happening, yea right!!! (Thats truly having your partner cover your rear end)

Bob, when I stated that we would instruct our players to head for home when the ump was dusting the plate , they were 17-18 yrs olds, not LL.
Yes that meant we had Smitty's doing our game. For the most part though, there are a lot more smitty games out there than the high level games were things like this, generally don't happen like this. And those situations should also be covered.

For the most part though I agree, calling time should be kept to a minimum and a brush of the foot can be just as effective at times. But to say that this works all the time for all levels, is just NOT true.

If there is one thing for sure, always expect the unexpected.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Cleaning the plate is most definitely a suspension of play, because the defensive team cannot pitch the ball.

So, if I understand you correctly, in instances where the defensive team cannot pitch; the ball is dead. Thus, again, if I understand you correctly, the ball is dead after a batter strikes out and another batter is coming to the plate because by rule the pitcher cannot pitch during that lacuna. I hope I don't understand you correctly.

[JJ]

With runners on base I call time to clean the plate. It uses the same amount of time than if I wouldn't call time, and it heads off something happening behind my back that may need my input to sort out.
I also call time with runners on base to change baseballs.
I also call time with runners on base when a pinch hitter comes up.
Of course, others do things differently, and they are not necessarily wrong. I use what works for me, and it's worked very well.

JJ

[LMan]

To follow this logic, then there's no need to raise your hand before you exchange baseballs w F2 after a 'dirt' ball, since it will only take an instant. Yet the pros always raise their hand...hmmmmm.

This is just a risk/reward thing for me. Takes no more time to raise my hand ever so briefly, yet any TWP on an advance is forestalled, no questions asked. So little effort, yet potentially huge reward...esp when one's BU quality can be, shall we say, 'variable.'

Small price to pay for being thought a Smitty by the 0.0000001% of specs who would actually think this. If that's the only Smittyism someone could hang on me at a FED game, I'd take it to the bank and thank them kindly.

Im all for "less Smitty-more pro," but this would have to be a small exception that proves the rule for me.

[ggk]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

if you are amongst the group pointing fingers and calling people names you should keep in mind that when you point that finger there are 3 fingers pointing back at yourself. time should not be called to clean the plate. the less times you call time during the game, the better. runners advancing on the basepaths (other than those coming home, of course) during times like this are of little concern to me, as the PU, in anything other than a 1 man game. if they want to advance, more power to them. my partner will keep an eye on them.

correct. no time, unless 1 man.

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This is not clear, Daryl. I am not suspending play. I am merely clearing the plate.

Before you come back with something like "would you let the pitcher pitch," let me say that the answer is no, just like when I'm clearing a bat or waiting for a batter to get set in the box. Good umpires don't hold their hands up and suspend play while a batter is digging in. Why is this different?

For any other cause could include 200 other things that I want to make up, too. It's a catch all that provides support for the umpire to call time IF HE WANTS TO. It certainly doesn't say that it's required to do it if play isn't suspended. Cause a 2 second sweep of the plate is not suspending play, not in my world.

Finally, someone has responded to my rule citations. I agree it is a catch all phrase which leaves it open to abuse. I respect your decision to not include sweeping the plate. Respect because we are both making a decision by considering a rule and either accepting or rejecting certain optional parameters to come to our decision.

I cited instructions from 2008 NF Umpire Manual pg 19 #26 entitled "Keep the plate clean". The wording involved says to minimalize when you clean the plate to keep the game moving and I believe we both agree to that. I think we can both agree also that a bigger abuse would be an umpire who calls time 50 times a game to sweep the plate.

While I do call time to sweep the plate I can assure you that in 27 years of umpiring I only do so maybe 3 times a game and always only when th plate has become completely covered or near so. Sometimes I just use my foot to quickly dust the plate as I walk by it (whch is becoming an accepted practice). I do not call time to do that nor do I turn my bck to players. The rest of the time I use the natural dead ball times to clean the plate.

I agree with you in the other situations you described above that time should not be called. But in those situations I can do my job and not turn my back on a live ball. The proper mechanics stated by umpire manual to clean the plate does make me turn my back to players and therefore I briefly declare ball dead.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by LMan

To follow this logic, then there's no need to raise your hand before you exchange baseballs w F2 after a 'dirt' ball, since it will only take an instant. Yet the pros always raise their hand...hmmmmm.

that's because there is a new ball being put into play. the friggen ball is dead when the umpire handles it, so they call time before handling it. 5.10e.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

2007-08 Umpire Manual. Page 19, #26 refers to the time when the umpire cleans the plate as "stopping play". A synonym of that phrase would be "suspending play".

Rule 2-1f. Time shall be called by the umpire and play is suspended when...the umpire suspends play for any other cause, including an award of a base after an infraction, or for inspection of the ball.

For any other cause includes cleaning the plate.

And the rule is clear...time shall be called. It is not an option

the rule is clear? ridiculous. the catch all thing has already been covered. using your "the rule is clear" logic, read 5.10e. "the umpire shall call time when..." it doesn't list cleaning the plate as one of those times. that's a lot more clear than your third world interpretation of your previously stated rule citation.

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

the rule is clear? ridiculous. the catch all thing has already been covered. using your "the rule is clear" logic, read 5.10e. "the umpire shall call time when..." it doesn't list cleaning the plate as one of those times. that's a lot more clear than your third world interpretation of your previously stated rule citation.

5.10e???? Does not exist in NF or NCAA.

Is this Bobby talking or the duck?

[bobbybanaduck]

pardon me for citing the OFFICIAL BASEBALL RULES

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

pardon me for citing the OFFICIAL BASEBALL RULES

They are not official for NF or NCAA.

And in 1995 when I worked professional ball in Cleveland Indians Development camp at Chain-O-Lakes complex in Winter Haven we were taught to call time when cleaning the plate.

I'm not saying that is the proper mechanic for MLB umpires here in 2008 but the rule 5-10e has not changed.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

And in 1995 when I worked professional ball in Cleveland Indians Development camp at Chain-O-Lakes complex in Winter Haven we were taught to call time when cleaning the plate.

that was a pretty lengthy level/name/complex/ drop you just laid on me. shall i return the favor? who was teaching you? UDP guys, or was that just what the guys at the complex wanted? things have changed a lot since you worked this D-league, and you just pretty much proved my point by saying that that rule hasn't changed, while the practice of calling time as you were taught has.

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

that was a pretty lengthy level/name/complex/ drop you just laid on me. shall i return the favor? who was teaching you? UDP guys, or was that just what the guys at the complex wanted? things have changed a lot since you worked this D-league, and you just pretty much proved my point by saying that that rule hasn't changed, while the practice of calling time as you were taught has.

I was working with guys who had just come out of one of the schools for MLB at that time. Yes, it was bad baseball and given the talent of the players your D-league name is a compliment.

5-10 The ball becomes dead when an umpire calls “Time.” The umpire-in-chief shall call “Time”—

(e) When the umpire wishes to examine the ball, to consult with either manager, or for any similar cause.

Similar cause was then interpreted to include cleaning the plate.

So. Will you please give me an example of what OBR would consider any similar cause?

[bobbybanaduck]

similar to examining the ball = switching balls. they don't really examine anymore. if it hits the dirt they call time and sqitch it out.

similar to wishes to consult with manager = argument. whether he wishes to consult or not, the skipper is coming out. assuming the playing action has ceased, call time and argue away.

if the guy you worked with in the D-league was taught at school that they were going back to the old school and the plate umpire would sit in an armchair, would you still be doing that today, or would you follow the current practice of what is being taught at the schools and/or used in pro ball now?