Is this a Balk?

[dnorthen]

It seems the more you learn about balks, the more questions are brought up. Our umpire organization vets have some different view on these - old habits die hard. I try to research the rules and ask around to see what others say before deciding what the correct decision should be in my future games. So, here goes:

Level is USSSA, defaults to OBR for these questions.

#1. The OBR states that the pitcher should be on the rubber when taking the signs, but I cannot find reference to this as a Balk Penalty. Some of our vets say yea, some say nay. Would it be considered a deception, the same as straddling the rubber and acting like a pitch was in process? Please offer your thoughts. Is this a Balk?

#2. I have seen many, many young pitchers committing a Balk (and I call it so), by doing the following. Pitching from the Set Position, they assume the position on the rubber with the ball in their glove. Then, still on the rubber, they reach into their glove (becoming set by both hands coming together) and take the ball out dropping their hand with the ball to their side without pitching or throwing to a base. Is this a correct call?

#3 I called a Balk on a pitcher for #2 in a recent game. The ball was live when this happened, but the batter had stepped out of the box. Time was never called and the Balk was committed, the pitcher never stepped off of the rubber. My partner then conferred with me to tell me that if the batter was not in the box, no Balk could be called. I told him as long as the ball was live and runners could be deceived, a Balk could be committed. Am I correct?

[bob jenkins]

1) Fix it, but it's not a balk (under OBR).

2) If it's all part of "getting comfortable on the rubber", then it's nothing. If it happens after F1 is on the rubber "for a while", then it's a balk.

3) The balk is a rule to protect the runners. The batter has nothing to do with this.

[mbyron]

Re #3: FED has a rule to deal with the batter stepping out and a subsequent balk. OBR does not have this rule.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Re #3: FED has a rule to deal with the batter stepping out and a subsequent balk. OBR does not have this rule.

I should amend # 3 to say "if the batter causes the balk (e.g., F1 stops his delivery because the batter steps out), then it's nothing (start over from scratch). if the batter didn't cause the balk, then it's still a balk no matter whether the batter is in or out of the box." And, that applies to all codes.

[charliej47]

In MLB this is one of the "don't do that" where the umpire will tell the pitcher to not do it any more and then takes actions if the pitcher continues. This is not a balk. In FED, they treat it as a balk/illegal pitch

[Fan10]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I should amend # 3 to say "if the batter causes the balk (e.g., F1 stops his delivery because the batter steps out), then it's nothing (start over from scratch). if the batter didn't cause the balk, then it's still a balk no matter whether the batter is in or out of the box." And, that applies to all codes.

Isn't this now an automatic strike per this year's changes to MLB rules?

[JJ]

When I first started umping, many seasons ago, the question of taking the sign off the rubber came up. One grizzled vet said "Don't worry about it". A catcher said "I'm not giving him signs - he only throws one pitch". And what if the "signs" are not standard signs (fingers) - what if they are touches of other body parts? If I can't figure out which signs are legitimate, I can't penalize the pitcher for taking signs off the rubber. Of course, if it's obvious, I'll tell him "Hey, take the sign on the rubber". But I'm an umpire, and not a very smart one at that (according to some coaches), so IMHO it's much ado about nothing....that mountain out of a mole hill thing.

JJ

[aceholleran]

Originally Posted by JJ

When I first started umping, many seasons ago, the question of taking the sign off the rubber came up. One grizzled vet said "Don't worry about it". A catcher said "I'm not giving him signs - he only throws one pitch". And what if the "signs" are not standard signs (fingers) - what if they are touches of other body parts? If I can't figure out which signs are legitimate, I can't penalize the pitcher for taking signs off the rubber. Of course, if it's obvious, I'll tell him "Hey, take the sign on the rubber". But I'm an umpire, and not a very smart one at that (according to some coaches), so IMHO it's much ado about nothing....that mountain out of a mole hill thing.

JJ

I DO enforce this ("Hey five, take signs on the rubber!") because it conceivably confuses runners, espcecially R1. He wants to take his lead, and sees F1 leaning over to get signs. On the slab or off?

In the CS&FP rule book, runners need to know when they can semi-safely take a lead.

Ace