illegal Sub/CR

[Lastump]

When an illegal CR is sent into the game (illegal sub) is this an appeal only or not. If not at what point does the PU, call the illegal sub out? CR Jones runs for F2 in the 1st inning, in the 3rd inning CR smith (who already ran for F1) is sent out. Do i let it happen and before the next pitch call the illegal sub or is this an appeal.

(And yes i now preventive umpiring would not let the wrong CR come out in the first place but certainly if the coach can't keep track of which players are legal or not who am i to say otherwsie.)

thanks

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Lastump

When an illegal CR is sent into the game (illegal sub) is this an appeal only or not. If not at what point does the PU, call the illegal sub out? CR Jones runs for F2 in the 1st inning, in the 3rd inning CR smith (who already ran for F1) is sent out. Do i let it happen and before the next pitch call the illegal sub or is this an appeal.

(And yes i now preventive umpiring would not let the wrong CR come out in the first place but certainly if the coach can't keep track of which players are legal or not who am i to say otherwsie.)

thanks

1. Use preventive umpiring and don't allow the substitution if you know it is illegal.

2. Yes, the defense must appeal the illegal substitution.

[ManInBlue]

Unless I'm mistaken, a CR is not a substitution. The "illegal sub" as you call it, is just fixed. Prevent it on the front end, but if you miss it and they appeal, get the right one out there. To the best of my knowledge there is no penalty for it as it's not a sub.

[umpduck11]

A player ineligible to be a CR is considered an illegal substitute, and shall be called out and restricted to the dugout. 3.1.1 Situation R

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by umpduck11

A player ineligible to be a CR is considered an illegal substitute, and shall be called out and restricted to the dugout. 3.1.1 Situation R

I stand corrected. I was thinking (specific) tournament rules, which are some what altered.

[edhern]

One answer was don't allow it as preventive umpiring, but it is an appeal. What is you are keeping a scorecard with a lineup and substitutions as I was in a Fed game. I didn't allow it when I noticed a substitute re-entering after being pinch run for, even though the coach was willing to take a chance on appeal that probably never would have happened. Was it my obligation to prevent it (which I did)?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by edhern

One answer was don't allow it as preventive umpiring, but it is an appeal. What is you are keeping a scorecard with a lineup and substitutions as I was in a Fed game. I didn't allow it when I noticed a substitute re-entering after being pinch run for, even though the coach was willing to take a chance on appeal that probably never would have happened. Was it my obligation to prevent it (which I did)?

Yes, imo. 10-1-1.

If the coach "insists" on it, then I'd allow it, and immediately declare the runner out. The illegal sub can be discovered by the umpire or either team. 3-1-1.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Lastump

When an illegal CR is sent into the game (illegal sub) is this an appeal only or not. If not at what point does the PU, call the illegal sub out? CR Jones runs for F2 in the 1st inning, in the 3rd inning CR smith (who already ran for F1) is sent out. Do i let it happen and before the next pitch call the illegal sub or is this an appeal.

Record all CR's for pitcher and catcher and don't allow the same person to run for both. Someone who has participated in the game is ineligble to be a CR so if this occurs he is considered to be an illegal substitute, dealt with as such when the defense questions so if you know the CR has been in the game don't allow it.