Good Bye

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The inmates have taken over the asylum. This represents a failure of nerve on the part of the orderlies.

As much as I hate to say this, I agree. Moderators need to step up and start deleting posts and threads which are not made in the intended spirit of this board. Otherwise, most of us will just stop coming around.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

As much as I hate to say this, I agree. Moderators need to step up and start deleting posts and threads which are not made in the intended spirit of this board. Otherwise, most of us will just stop coming around.

I agree also. I'm not an umpire, but I still have a love for the game. I read this forum out of that love. "Sad" is the only word that describes what a select few are doing to this particular forum.

I can remember when McGriffs was actually a great site for all sports officials. A few ruined it for everyone and the site degenerated into uncontrolled havoc...and folded. The same is now happening here. You have a clique of 3 posters who's only real interest in posting here is raising sh!t. Hell, they've as much as admitted that. You also have a few immature sycophants that think what they're doing is cool, and try to imitate them.

Jmo, but you can mess around and have fun with each other. You can also argue like hell...and quite heatedly at times too...as long as you don't take it personal. We do it on the basketball forum all the time. Just because you disagree(maybe vehemently) with someone doesn't mean that you don't respect them. However, what these people are currently doing is completely antithetical to the aims of this forum. They show absolutely NO respect for anyone else.

What's truly unfortunate is that the posters who have the knowledge and also are willing to share that knowledge are being forced off this site. That hurts all of us...who care.

[mick]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

As much as I hate to say this, I agree. Moderators need to step up and start deleting posts and threads which are not made in the intended spirit of this board. Otherwise, most of us will just stop coming around.

Rich,
I don't think I have had more that 10 reported posts all year, and only a few have been related to poster abuses with the rest related to spam or porn.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mick

Rich,
I don't think I have had more that 10 reported posts all year, and only a few have been related to poster abuses with the rest related to spam or porn.

I delete what I see, when I see it (and, yes, sometimes I make mistakes -- deleting what shouldn't be; missing posts that should be). This means that a poster might see an "attack" and think, "that Jenkins lets anything go against me" only because I haven't been around to delete the post. Or, a poster might respond in kind, and I'm here "right away" to delete it, and the poster thinks, "that Jenkins has it in for me -- deleting even the most mild of my retorts." What posters (in general) don't see is all the posts I delete before they see them (huh?).

That said, over the past couple of weeks, I have been purposefully *not* deleting any but the most egregious posts (spam and purely vitriolic attacks). Call it an experiment to see what happens, or a response to some feedback that I was "over moderating", or a chance to see if certain posters would "self moderate." Whatever, it pretty clearly failed.

I deleted many posts from several threads (including some that hadn't been active for a day or so) this morning. I'll try to keep up. But, I ask that you *not* respond in kind to any attacks ("don't feed the trolls"). It makes the moderating more difficult and more time consuming.

Stay on-topic. Talk about umpiring (rules, mechanics, game management, equipment). Feel free to propose new ideas -- but recognize that an idea is not "good" or "bad" merely because it's new. Respond once or twice per thread per "session" -- do not feel the need to respond to every post in every thread. Treat new posters kindly -- at least until they prove they don't deserve it; then ignore them (and I don't necessarily mean to imply "use the ignore function.")

We've all known umpires with whom we "dreaad" working. The same applies here -- there are posters we "dread" reading. Don't be that poster.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I deleted many posts from several threads (including some that hadn't been active for a day or so) this morning. I'll try to keep up. But, I ask that you *not* respond in kind to any attacks ("don't feed the trolls"). It makes the moderating more difficult and more time consuming.

Stay on-topic. Talk about umpiring (rules, mechanics, game management, equipment). Feel free to propose new ideas -- but recognize that an idea is not "good" or "bad" merely because it's new. Respond once or twice per thread per "session" -- do not feel the need to respond to every post in every thread. Treat new posters kindly -- at least until they prove they don't deserve it; then ignore them (and I don't necessarily mean to imply "use the ignore function.")

We've all known umpires with whom we "dreaad" working. The same applies here -- there are posters we "dread" reading. Don't be that poster.

Amen!

I have posted on BBS's (for other topics) for many years now. One thing I have noticed is that some members, usually ones in good standing and "popular" tend to "feed the fire" or certain personality types. If looked at objectively, they often are guilty of the very same type of thinking/actions they are complaining about!

I will not name names, or point fingers here. But I think maybe a dose of reality should be posted by SOMEBODY. If you don't agree with somebody, or their post seems really ridiculous to you, or silly, or just plain stupid, I certainly don't see any need not to share what you think. But to continue on with post after post of telling them that (which usually comes after a stinging retort by the offending person to you) with the intent of "changing their mind" is just as silly. Also, much of what some people say has to be handled just like we are encouraged to handle it on the ball field. If you know you are right in your mind, why even respond to ridiculous stuff? Let them have the last word and be done with the conversation. Sure, they might have taken a few cheap shots. Made a few underhanded comments. Beat around the bush of calling YOU an idiot. LET IT GO!

Garth doesn't HAVE to leave. Neither does Rob Drake. I have lost a little respect for both for even posting their little "Dear John" goodbye posts here. That kind of thing is just as silly as ANYTHING somebody here could have done.

I KNOW what I am about. I KNOW where I stand in umpiring. I KNOW I am not perfect. I KNOW I am good too! There is not one of you here that can shake any of that! I think most mature, rational, informed posters here know when somebody is being ridiculous. I don't need to feed the fires (of course, that is sort of what I am doing here he? ) and defend myself when somebody is being difficult here. I just let it go and move on.

NOT A SINGLE THING THAT GOES ON HERE EFFECTS THE JOB I DO ON THE FIELD, except for possibly learning some new things that help!

I am here to share my experience and read others. I think THAT is the spirit of this site.

Bob, I commend you for staying out of most of this. I encourage you to let the community sort things out. Overly moderated sites have no personality. While I agree that spam, and outright hostile/threatening/offensive comments should be deleted, for the most part, I think we are all adults here. If a guy can't walk away from a conversation that isn't going his way, and continues to blast the other person, stuff like that will never change, no matter how much you moderate. I say, better to keep it a bit loose than to tighten up. You can strangle out all possibility of learning if you over-moderate a forum.

Lighten up people. It is just the internet!

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by rei

Amen!


Garth doesn't HAVE to leave. Neither does Rob Drake. I have lost a little respect for both for even posting their little "Dear John" goodbye posts here. That kind of thing is just as silly as ANYTHING somebody here could have done.

I KNOW what I am about. I KNOW where I stand in umpiring. I KNOW I am not perfect. I KNOW I am good too! There is not one of you here that can shake any of that! I think most mature, rational, informed posters here know when somebody is being ridiculous. I don't need to feed the fires (of course, that is sort of what I am doing here he? ) and defend myself when somebody is being difficult here. I just let it go and move on.

NOT A SINGLE THING THAT GOES ON HERE EFFECTS THE JOB I DO ON THE FIELD, except for possibly learning some new things that help!

I am here to share my experience and read others. I think THAT is the spirit of this site.

Bob, I commend you for staying out of most of this. I encourage you to let the community sort things out. Overly moderated sites have no personality. While I agree that spam, and outright hostile/threatening/offensive comments should be deleted, for the most part, I think we are all adults here. If a guy can't walk away from a conversation that isn't going his way, and continues to blast the other person, stuff like that will never change, no matter how much you moderate. I say, better to keep it a bit loose than to tighten up. You can strangle out all possibility of learning if you over-moderate a forum.

Lighten up people. It is just the internet!

Aren't we the enlightened one? Do you think Garth would walk away from verbal sparring? You don't know him very well.

I think that what has happened with Rob and Garth is a bit more than you understand. Trolls have gone beyond the name calling and arguing. They have stolen identities and used them on the internet. They have made up their own "facts" and are posting them, boldy and unquestioned. These trolls have progressed from being a mild nuisance to being unethical, slanderous and unstoppable. They are the internet version of terrorists.


The cloak that the internet provides gives cowards like these trolls cover and makes them feel invincible. We are all one post away from pissing one of them off and finding ourselves in the same situation as Rob and Garth.

No, Rei, this is more serious than you think. And I would not be so quick to lose respect for two former posters who became victims of slander and took the time to warn the rest of us of what was going on. We won't know how you will handle finding your name being used on posts you didn't write until it happens.

Garth used to chide me for using a pen name. He used to tell me that using his real name signified that he wasn't afraid to stand behind what he posted and that only cowards used pen names. I maintained that the internet was a dangerous place where whackos lurked and providing any of them with more information about you than they needed was foolish.

I am sad to be in the position of saying, "I told you so."

[t-rex]

Unfortunately, Rob and Garth are only the two most recent victims. There is a pattern to what has taken place. The ignore feature or simply ignoring posts, in my opinion, won't make the problem go away.

It is time for the moderators to put a stop to it, or lose that which they moderate when we all walk away.

[mick]

Originally Posted by t-rex

Unfortunately, Rob and Garth are only the two most recent victims. There is a pattern to what has taken place. The ignore feature or simply ignoring posts, in my opinion, won't make the problem go away.

It is time for the moderators to put a stop to it, or lose that which they moderate when we all walk away.

t-rex,
I do not think MrUmpire was talking about hi-jacking identities within this forum. I believe he was talking about the unregistered use of names and the identity theft being used in other similar forums.

MrUmpire is well respected here and could perhaps clear that up.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Garth used to chide me for using a pen name. He used to tell me that using his real name signified that he wasn't afraid to stand behind what he posted and that only cowards used pen names. I maintained that the internet was a dangerous place where whackos lurked and providing any of them with more information about you than they needed was foolish.

I am sad to be in the position of saying, "I told you so."

I use my real name and people have used my name to try to make it seem like it is me. It does not work very well because you have to know more about me than I reveal here. And if people are dumb enough to take what people say on the internet without corroboration. There are people that try to mock very well know people and it does not work. You have to do better than just taking someone's name. You have to know more about them than what they present on the board.

Peace

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And if people are dumb enough to take what people say on the internet without corroboration.

Not much of an 'if' here, Jeff. Most people believe what they read without giving a thought of its source. Sad, but true.

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Aren't we the enlightened one? Do you think Garth would walk away from verbal sparring? You don't know him very well.

I think that what has happened with Rob and Garth is a bit more than you understand. Trolls have gone beyond the name calling and arguing. They have stolen identities and used them on the internet. They have made up their own "facts" and are posting them, boldy and unquestioned. These trolls have progressed from being a mild nuisance to being unethical, slanderous and unstoppable. They are the internet version of terrorists.


The cloak that the internet provides gives cowards like these trolls cover and makes them feel invincible. We are all one post away from pissing one of them off and finding ourselves in the same situation as Rob and Garth.

No, Rei, this is more serious than you think. And I would not be so quick to lose respect for two former posters who became victims of slander and took the time to warn the rest of us of what was going on. We won't know how you will handle finding your name being used on posts you didn't write until it happens.

Garth used to chide me for using a pen name. He used to tell me that using his real name signified that he wasn't afraid to stand behind what he posted and that only cowards used pen names. I maintained that the internet was a dangerous place where whackos lurked and providing any of them with more information about you than they needed was foolish.

I am sad to be in the position of saying, "I told you so."

I appreciate what you are saying, but, I think I am quite aware of what is going on. I can read.

That crap is happening elsewhere, and it would not be allowed here. To give up posting here because of stuff happening elsewhere just seems silly to me.

Concerning a very different topic, I have a name presence on some BBS's concerning that topic. I am published, and am sought after for advice. You would not believe the vicious stuff that has been posted about me by the same kind of people that Garth and Rob are dealing with.

I have never stopped sharing my knowledge on that topic, and in fact, was banned from a site for my retribution to some guys that were targeting me. Oh well. I went to a site where they don't ban, and moved on.

I think some people tend to take the things said to/about them on a BBS FAR too seriously, and think it is damaging their reputation when it is in fact not! It is JUST the internet.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by mick

Rich,
I don't think I have had more that 10 reported posts all year, and only a few have been related to poster abuses with the rest related to spam or porn.

Mick,

The number of posts if reported would overwhelm you. It would be best to remove a small number of accounts (The three problem accounts - could be the same person).

Once they have been removed it should be very easy to track posts on the new accounts they set up & just kill them.

Should something not be done I suspect a great number of posters will leave. It's just not worth dealing with garbage like this.

Having run some large BB's myself I clearly understand the work load. It's unfortunate that a very small number of individuals are able to ruin what is otherwise a great place.

[mick]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

Mick,

The number of posts if reported would overwhelm you. It would be best to remove a small number of accounts (The three problem accounts - could be the same person).

Once they have been removed it should be very easy to track posts on the new accounts they set up & just kill them.

Should something not be done I suspect a great number of posters will leave. It's just not worth dealing with garbage like this.

Having run some large BB's myself I clearly understand the work load. It's unfortunate that a very small number of individuals are able to ruin what is otherwise a great place.

socalblue1,
The number of reported posts may be tough to handle, but I don't know that for a fact. I know that I respond to them.
As far as the same person using muliple usernames, yes, more then you imagine. If you see a real active instigator, and then suddenly he has a comrad, it often is the result of a user who is "talking to himself" and backing up his alter ego". Likewise bonafide contributors will use multiple usernames, for whatever reason, to make a specific point.

Tracking a problem is not as difficult as defining a problem. That is where the help is needed. The users of any particular forum have the ability to report posts and posters that, seemingly, are intent on making forum useage uncomfortable. The users of a forum, rather than joining in on a counter-attack, can report/ignore/avoid any given poster. Private messaging is available to give a moderator more information or to lodge a complaint.

Since at any given time, only a few users are responsible for the worst problems, they can be easily sent to the dugout or to their car.


Many users believe the moderators should be more proactive and police each thread. I do not. I am not a marshall, nor do I want to be. I want to be considered more of an orderly and for our good users to be the doctors.

If someone pukes, tell me and I'll clean it up. If someone makes the sheets brown, tell me and I'll clean it up. If some sick psycho goes weird, tell me and I'll move him to another room.

I do not read every thread, nor do I want to read every thread, but I will, from time to time, be reading a thread and make a post or thread, that I adjudge to be objectionable or potentialy inflammatory, go away. But I will not deal with each post that marginally bothers me, because I think that a free exchange is important to learning and that I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Our users are young and old, Little League and Big League, newbees and experienced, old school and cutting-edge. Our personalities require us to be reasonable, blunt, controlling and decisive, with a touch of compassion, patience and understanding. We are quick to react to any action. With few exceptions we enjoy what we do in spite of, or because of, the challenges in front of us.
We use these tools on the field because we are always carrying them in our pouch. And they are good tools when used in a professional manner.

So what can we do in this fight for peace ?
Use the tools.

• Be more patient with newbees.
• Report idiots.
• Ignore idiots.
• Be tolerant and patient with idiots.
• Eliminate name calling.
• Understand differences.
• Count to 10.
• Do not feed trolls.
• Respect your sport.