Infield fly rule

[rngrck]

Had a couple of plays yesterday with 1st and 2nd , 1 out, B1 hits pop up over 1st base with F3 running out making the catch with his back to infield. Same situation later in game with F9 coming in calling F3 off, to make the catch.
How would you rule this?

[mbyron]

In both instances the crucial judgment call is whether the fly ball "can be fielded by an infielder with ordinary effort." This us usually HTBT.

If the infielder has to turn around to run out for the catch, and makes it running away, then I'm generally not calling an infield fly. That's more than "ordinary effort."

The second case is probably an infield fly: I'm envisioning a high pop fly, with F3 backing up and F9 calling him off. Still, many of these will be HTBT.

Edited to add: if the second situation is the same as the first, then it's still not an infield fly, no matter who catches the ball. I was thinking of a different case.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by mbyron

In both instances the crucial judgment call is whether the fly ball "can be fielded by an infielder with ordinary effort."

Bzzzzzzzzt, wrong, INF do NOT have to be involved in an IFF. In Big Boy Ball, an OF can easily be determined inside the ordinary effort call to be the player who is putting out the ordinary effort hence = IFF.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Bzzzzzzzzt, wrong, INF do NOT have to be involved in an IFF. In Big Boy Ball, an OF can easily be determined inside the ordinary effort call to be the player who is putting out the ordinary effort hence = IFF.

Bzzzzzt. That's not what mbyron said.

[UMP25]

Ding ding ding! You are correct, dash. fitump56 is wrong in his interpretation of what mbyron said. An Infield Fly IS judged solely on ordinary effort by an INfielder, but this does not preclude an outfielder from gloving a ball that can still be called Infield Fly.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Ding ding ding! You are correct, dash. fitump56 is wrong in his interpretation of what mbyron said. An Infield Fly IS judged solely on ordinary effort by an INfielder, but this does not preclude an outfielder from gloving a ball that can still be called Infield Fly.

You didn't just say gloving did you?

[Interested Ump]

Originally Posted by mbyron
In both instances the crucial judgment call is whether the fly ball "can be fielded by an infielder with ordinary effort."

Originally Posted by fitump56

Bzzzzzzzzt, wrong, INF do NOT have to be involved in an IFF. In Big Boy Ball, an OF can easily be determined inside the ordinary effort call to be the player who is putting out the ordinary effort hence = IFF.

A key to this interpretation is the ability for the fly ball to have considerable hang time. As you ponted out, this will often not be the case in the younger age groups even at 60/90 ball.

mbyron is incorrect in assuming that only an INF can be judged as attaining OE in the interpretation of the IFF rule. F7-9 if positioned in the infield, they are still charted as OF (feel free to see the Definition Of IFF), are INFs for the purpose of this call.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by rngrck

Had a couple of plays yesterday with 1st and 2nd , 1 out, B1 hits pop up over 1st base with F3 running out making the catch with his back to infield. Same situation later in game with F9 coming in calling F3 off, to make the catch.
How would you rule this?

mbyron is correct. How did you rule on these plays?

[rngrck]

I ruled no infield fly for the reasons Bryon commented as no ordinary catch. The second situation involved F3 running out in short right field while being called off. Judgement was the key factor here and explained it to the defensive coach. Thanks guys for your input.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by rngrck

Had a couple of plays yesterday with 1st and 2nd , 1 out, B1 hits pop up over 1st base with F3 running out making the catch with his back to infield. Same situation later in game with F9 coming in calling F3 off, to make the catch.
How would you rule this?

The key words in OBR is "ordinary effort". I would think that there are few times when an INFer has his back to INF that "ordinary effort" prevails.

F9 is a completely different sitch. OF can be held to the IFR if the IF is high enough, the OF has enough chance and the INF has been waived off or failed to properly playhis position.

[Interested Ump]

Originally Posted by fitump56

The key words in OBR is "ordinary effort". I would think that there are few times when an INFer has his back to INF that "ordinary effort" prevails.

F9 is a completely different sitch. OF can be held to the IFR if the IF is high enough, the OF has enough chance and the INF has been waived off or failed to properly playhis position.

Deej, imagine that there exists a world where you are correct?

"Cats and dogs sleeping together..."

One of few OBR's that have endured the times is this concept of ordinary effort. Way back when, players would routinely allow infield flies to drop to ground. Rs who were unable to logically advance in this fly ball situation, were forced out at the base ahead.

Masterminds as they were, comin fresh off beating the Redcoats, the Infield Fly Rule prohibited defensive players from thisw subterfuge.

With this history, and logical thought, in the umpire's logical head, ordinary effort becomes the milestone for Infield Fly Rule decision making.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Interested Ump

Deej, imagine that there exists a world where you are correct?

"Cats and dogs sleeping together..."

Would thia be the same world where you don't have your multi and I have to escort your a$$ and CFI your logs?

[Interested Ump]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Would thia be the same world where you don't have your multi and I have to escort your a$$ and CFI your logs?

Yes, that would be the same one, Frick. Excuse me while I, Frack, calendar your women who pay no attention to you, they see strait through you, come to my side for comfort.
Go to bed, long days ahead.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Interested Ump

Yes, that would be the same one, Frick. Excuse me while I, Frack, calendar your women who pay no attention to you, they see strait through you, come to my side for comfort.
Go to bed, long days ahead.

Roger wilco and flyboy talk back at ya'.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Oh, boy. I love flyboy talk. Don't forget to mention PIC hours.

1100 and you? Velocity XL and you?