Rules Myths Part 1

[TwoBits]

High school baseball season started here just last week, which means summer baseball season and dealing with unknowledgeable dads is just around the corner. Every year I post a modified version of Eteamz's "40 Rules Myths" at local fields. If I need to add or fix anything, please tell me. This document is meant to cover both baseball and softball rules for FED and OBR.


The Batter
· The hands are part of the bat. FALSE. The hands are part of the batter. If a batter is hit in the hands by a pitch, he/she will be allowed to go to first base provided that he/she did not swing, the pitch wasn’t in the strike zone, and he/she made an attempt to get out of the way of the pitch. If the batter does swing at the pitch and is hit in the hand, the pitch is ruled a dead-ball strike, not a foul ball.
· If the batter breaks his/her wrists when swinging, it is a strike. FALSE. It is a strike if, in the umpire’s judgment, the batter attempted to hit the ball. Wrist motion has no bearing in this decision.
· The batter cannot be called out for interference if he/she is in the batter’s box. FALSE. If the batter has reasonable time to vacate the batter’s box, he/she must do so or risk interference being called.
· The batter may not switch batter’s boxes after two strikes. FALSE. No such rule exists.
· The batter who batted out of order is person declared out. FALSE. The proper batter is the one called out. Any hit or advance made by the batter or runners due to the hit, walk, error, or other reason is nullified. The next batter is the one who followed the batter who was called out.
· The batter is out if he/she starts for the dugout before going to first after an uncaught third strike. FALSE. In leagues using professional baseball rules, the batter is declared out once he/she leaves the dirt area surrounding home plate. In high school rules, the batter is not declared out until he/she enters the dugout.
· The batter may never run to first base on an uncaught third strike if first base is occupied at the time of pitch. FALSE. If there are two outs, the batter may run even if first base is occupied.
· The batter may not run to first base if the catcher cleanly catches a pitch for strike three that hits the ground first. FALSE. A catch is defined n part as, “The act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a live ball in flight.” A ball that bounces or hits the ground is no longer in flight.
· If the batter does not pull the bat back while in the bunting position, it is an automatic strike. FALSE. A strike is defined in part as, “A legal pitch that is attempted to be hit by the batter and is missed.” Merely holding the bat in the bunting position does not mean the batter attempted to hit the ball.
· The batter is out if a bunted ball bounces back up and hits the bat while the batter is holding the bat. FALSE. If the batter is still in the batter’s box when this happens, it is ruled a foul ball.
· The batter is out if his/her foot touches the plate. FALSE. In leagues using professional baseball rules, a batter is called out only if the batter's foot is entirely outside the batter’s box and is touching the ground outside the box when he/she contacts the pitch with the bat. He/She is not out if he/she does not contact the pitch with the bat. There is no statement about touching the plate. The toe could be on the plate and the heel could be touching the line of the box, which means the foot is not entirely outside the box. In leagues using high school rules, a batter would be declared out if his/her foot is touching the plate, but again, contact must be made with the pitch by the bat or otherwise no call would be made.
· A pitch that bounces to the plate cannot be hit. FALSE in baseball and fast pitch softball, but this is TRUE in slow pitch softball.
· The batter does not get first base if hit by a pitch after it bounces. FALSE. No such rule exists. The pitch hitting the ground means nothing.
· The ball is dead on a foul tip. FALSE. The term “foul tip” is often misused. The definition of foul tip is, “A batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s hands and is legally caught.” If the ball is not caught, it is a foul ball and the play is dead. However, a foul tip remains a live ball just like a swinging strike.

Running to First
· The batter-runner must turn to his/her right after over-running first base. FALSE. The batter may turn in either direction and not be in jeopardy of being tagged out unless, in the umpire’s judgment, attempts to advance to second base.
· The batter may not overrun first base when he/she gets a base-on-balls without liability to be put out. FALSE in professional rules baseball and all softball codes, but TRUE in high school baseball.
· The batter-runner is always out if he/she runs outside the running lane after a bunted ball. FALSE. The batter is declared out only if he/she is outside the running lane and interferes with the defense fielding the ball or receiving a throw at first base.

Base Running
· A runner is out if he slaps hands or high-fives other players after a homerun is hit over the fence. FALSE. A runner is only out if a player (who is not a runner) or coach physically assists a player in running the bases. A high-five or any other congratulatory gesture is not considered a physical assist.
· Tie goes to the runner. FALSE. It doesn’t go to the fielders, either. The umpire must judge either the runner beating the throw or the throw beating the runner. Ties do not exist.
· The runner gets the base he/she is going to plus one on a ball thrown out-of-play. FALSE. The “1+1” myth that is often quoted does not exist in the rules. The runner is awarded two bases from time of pitch if the ball thrown out of play is the first play made on the infield. If the throw is the second or subsequent play made from the infield or is any throw from the outfield, then the runner is awarded two bases from the last base the runner occupied from the time of throw. This means, for example, if a runner is returning to first base to tag up on a caught fly ball and the fielder throws the ball out of play, the runner would be awarded third base.
· Anytime a coach touches a runner, the runner is out. FALSE. Again, the runner must be physically assisted with his/her base running to be declared out.
· Runners may never run the bases in reverse order. FALSE. In some cases, the runner is required to run the bases in reverse order, such as when he/she must tag up on a particularly long fly ball that is caught. The only time the runner is declared out is when he/she is doing something to deliberately confuse the defense or is making a travesty of the game.
· If the runner doesn’t slide on a close play, he/she is out. FALSE in most written rule sets including high school rules. The runner only needs to seek to avoid contact, and if he/she can do so without sliding, then that is allowed. Contact between the runner and the defense can still occur and no call may not be made. However, if a runner is judged by the umpire to have maliciously contacted a defensive player, that runner can be called out and ejected from the game. Some local leagues do have special slide rules for some age groups, but again, these rules are not written in either professional baseball or high school rules books.
· The runner is safe when hit by a batted ball while touching a base. FALSE in baseball, but TRUE in softball. In baseball, the runner is declared out if struck by a batted ball at any time as long as it is untouched by a fielder or has passed an infielder (not including the pitcher) and no other infielder has a chance of fielding the ball. If the runner is hit by a batted ball while on base during an infield fly situation as determined by the infield fly rule, then he/she is not out, but if he/she is off a base and this occurs, then both the runner and the batter are out. In softball, the runner is allowed to remain on base and will not be declared out if struck by a batted ball. However, in all codes, if the runner intentionally interferes in any way for any reason, he/she will be declared out.
· A runner is out if he runs out of the baseline to avoid a fielder who is fielding a batted ball. FALSE. The runner is required to avoid a fielder who is fielding a batted ball. If he/she does not avoid a fielder who is fielding a batted ball, he/she will be declared out. The runner is only ruled out for being out of the baseline when he/she is trying to avoid being tagged.
· It is always okay for a runner to contact a fielder who is standing in the baseline. FALSE. As stated above, the runner is required to avoid a fielder who is fielding a batted ball. The baseline does not belong to the runner. If the fielder is not fielding a batter ball and contact occurs between he/she and the runner or if the runner has to alter his/her path, then defensive interference (obstruction) is called.
· Runners may not advance when an infield fly is called. FALSE. An infield fly ball as determined by the infield fly rule is a live ball, and runners may advance after tagging up when the ball is caught. They may also advance without tagging up if the ball is not caught.
· Two runners may not touch the same base at the same time. FALSE, however one of them is in jeopardy of being put out. If a runner is forced to advance to the next base, the lead runner is out if tagged. If the lead runner is not forced, then the trail runner is out if tagged.

[TwoBits]

Fair/Foul, Foul Tips, and Others
· If a batted ball hits the plate, it’s a foul ball. FALSE. Home plate is in fair territory just as all the other bases. A batted ball that hits first or third base is a fair ball, and home plate is no different.
· If a player’s feet are in fair territory when the ball is touched, it is a fair ball. FALSE. It is the position of the ball that determines whether it is fair or foul. If a fielder has his feet in fair territory but reaches over the foul line and touches the ball in foul territory, then it would be a foul ball.
· A runner may not steal on a foul tip. FALSE. As previously stated in the section entitled, “The Batter”, the ball is live on a foul tip. Runners may steal because the ball is live.
· If a fielder holds a fly ball for two seconds, it is a catch. FALSE. A catch is determined when a fielder has complete control of the ball in his/her hand or glove. Time is not a factor in an umpire’s judgment in determining a catch.
· If a fielder catches a fly ball and then falls over the outfield fence, it is a homerun. FALSE. This is an out. However, if a fielder enters dead ball territory with the ball, all runners will be awarded on base unless the catch was the third out.
· The ball is dead anytime the ball hits an umpire. FALSE. A thrown ball that hits an umpire is live. A batted ball that hits an umpire is dead unless the ball was deflected off a defensive player or has passed a defensive player other than the pitcher.
· The home plate umpire can overrule the other umpires at anytime. FALSE. No umpire (including the home plate umpire or umpire-in-chief) has the authority to set aside or question decisions made by another umpire within the limits of the respective duties as outlined in the rules. An umpire may request help from another umpire in a decision, but ultimately it is the requesting umpire who will make the final decision.

Appeals
· It is a force out when a runner is called out for not tagging up on a fly ball. FALSE. Failing to retouch is not a force. If a runner is called out for the third out on appeal for not retouching (tagging up), any preceding runs score unless the appeal is made before the runners cross the plate.
· An appeal on a runner who misses a base cannot be a force out. FALSE. A runner who missed a base they were forced to and is properly appealed for the third out can nullify any runs the would have scored.
· No run can score when a runner is called out for the third out for not tagging up. FALSE. If a runner is called out for the third out on appeal for not retouching (tagging up), any preceding runs score unless the appeal is made before they cross the plate.
· You must tag the base with your foot on a force out or appeal. FALSE. Any portion of the fielder’s body or glove may be used to touch the base. Even if the fielder has the ball in his/her hand and touches the base with his/her empty glove, an out would still be recorded.
· The ball must always be returned to the pitcher before an appeal can be made. FALSE. Appeals may either be made at anytime during a live ball by touching a base that a runner failed to tag up on a fly ball or for missing a base. In high schools rules, the defense may also make an appeal on a runner during a dead ball. Any defensive player or coach can to this by requesting time and asking the umpire to appeal the infraction. In any case, an appeal must be made before the next pitch or play.

Pitching
· The ball is always dead on a balk. FALSE in professional baseball and softball, but TRUE in high school baseball. In high school baseball, the ball is immediately dead, and all runners will advance one base. If the ball is pitched and the batter hits it, play does not continue. In professional baseball, a balk is a delayed dead ball, and the batter may hit the pitch. If he/she does and all runners and the batter advance successfully to the next base, then the balk is ignored. If they do not, then play is stopped, the runners advance one base from their position at the time of the pitch and the batter is returned to the plate to continue his at-bat with the previous ball and strikes count. In softball, the term “balk” is replaced with the term “illegal pitch”. In softball, an illegal pitch is still a delayed dead ball and the batter may attempt to hit the pitch. In softball, after play ends, the batting team may elect to either take the illegal pitch penalty and have the batter return to the plate to continue his/her at-bat, or they may take the result of the play.
· With no runners on base, it is a ball if the pitcher starts his windup and then stops. FALSE in professional baseball, but TRUE in high school baseball and softball. In professional baseball, this is just a no-pitch.
· The pitcher must come to a set position before a pick-off throw. FALSE. The pitcher must come set only before pitching to the batter. This is a baseball rule only as pickoffs are not used in softball.
· The pitcher must step off the rubber before a pick-off throw. FALSE. The pitcher may remain in contact with the rubber during a pick-off. This is a baseball rule only as pickoffs are not used in softball.
· The pitcher’s foot must remain in contact with the rubber until the release of the ball. FALSE. Coaches teaching the proper technique encourage pushing off the rubber during the pitch. In softball, the pivot foot (the one doing the pushing) must drag and remain in contact with the ground.
· In softball, the pitcher must release the ball after the first time it passes the hip toward the plate. FALSE. By rule, the pitcher is not allowed to make two complete revolutions on a pitch, but starting behind the hip, wind milling, and releasing the ball is not two complete revolutions.

Internet Sources
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info...s/foreword.jsp
www.eteamz.com/baseball/rules/obr/myths
http://www.eteamz.active.com/softbal...all_myth’s.doc


Printed Sources
2008 National Federation of High Schools Baseball Rules Book
2008 National Federation of High Schools Softball Rules Book

[zebra2955]

With no runners on base, it is a ball if the pitcher starts his windup and then stops. FALSE in professional baseball, but TRUE in high school baseball and softball. In professional baseball, this is just a no-pitch

can you tell me where this is located in the FED book?

thanks in advance

[Welpe]

Good list, I like it. Hopefully people will actually read it.

Originally Posted by TwoBits

· The batter cannot be called out for interference if he/she is in the batter’s box. FALSE. If the batter has reasonable time to vacate the batter’s box, he/she must do so or risk interference being called.

You should probably go into a little more detail here and explain WHEN the the batter has to vacate the batter's box.

· The runner is safe when hit by a batted ball while touching a base. FALSE in baseball, but TRUE in softball. In baseball, the runner is declared out if struck by a batted ball at any time as long as it is untouched by a fielder or has passed an infielder (not including the pitcher) and no other infielder has a chance of fielding the ball.

I would change this a bit to reflect the current OBR interpretation that a runner hit by an untouched batted ball is not out only if they are directly behind the fielder that let the ball get past them. I think it was Jim Evans that said a runner still has a duty to avoid a batted ball.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

· The runner is safe when hit by a batted ball while touching a base. FALSE in baseball... In baseball, the runner is declared out if struck by a batted ball at any time as long as it is untouched by a fielder or has passed an infielder (not including the pitcher) and no other infielder has a chance of fielding the ball. .

Am I reading this right?
Isn't this the exception to a hit baserunner being out?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Am I reading this right?
Isn't this the exception to a hit baserunner being out?

The base is a "safe haven" only on an Infield Fly. Otherwise, the "normal" rules about bing hit by the batted ball apply.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The base is a "safe haven" only on an Infield Fly. Otherwise, the "normal" rules about bing hit by the batted ball apply.

I wasn't speaking to on or off the base.

I think it is just a badly structured sentence. We all know what it's trying to say but the people he is posting it for certainly do not and may be confused.


OP

Originally Posted by TwoBits

The runner is safe when hit by a batted ball while touching a base. FALSE in baseball... In baseball, the runner is declared out if struck by a batted ball at any time as long as it is untouched by a fielder or has passed an infielder (not including the pitcher) and no other infielder has a chance of fielding the ball. .

This reads OUT IF
1. "untouched by a fielder" OR
2. "has passed an infielder..."

1 could be wrong and 2 is usually wrong




Should be changed to:

"The runner is safe when hit by a batted ball while touching a base. FALSE in baseball... In baseball, the runner is declared out if struck by a batted ball at any time unless it is first touched by a fielder or has passed an infielder (not including the pitcher) and no other infielder has a chance of fielding the ball. ."

This makes it usually right

[BigSteve56]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

High school baseball season started here just last week, which means summer baseball season and dealing with unknowledgeable dads is just around the corner. Every year I post a modified version of Eteamz's "40 Rules Myths" at local fields. If I need to add or fix anything, please tell me. This document is meant to cover both baseball and softball rules for FED and OBR.


Tie goes to the runner. FALSE. It doesn’t go to the fielders, either. The umpire must judge either the runner beating the throw or the throw beating the runner. Ties do not exist.

At the risk of being bombarded with all sorts of criticism, I'll say it anyway. I'm also not trying to stir up trouble. First of all, ties do in fact exist whether or not you want to believe it. The ball reaching F3 and the B/R touching the base at the same time (a TIE) are mutually exclusive events meaning one is NOT dependent on the other. Having said that, for an OUT to occur, the ball must reach F3 BEFORE the B/R touches 1B. See 7-4-1f f. after a dropped third strike (see 8-4-1e) or a fair hit, if the ball held by any fielder touches the batter before the batter touches first base; or if any fielder, while holding the ball in his grasp, touches first base or touches first base with the ball before the batter-runner touches first base: Not at the same time or not after, but BEFORE. Having said that, if the ball and the B/R reach 1B at the same time, meaning that to the umpire's vision, he cannot perceive any difference between the two, you have a PHYSICAL as opposed to a rule book, tie. The rule book does not address the word tie, so from that perspective the statement is true. TIE in the normal sense of the word for ages has meant a simultaneous arrival of the ball and the B/R at the base. Nobody can argue that, we've all heard it since we were kids. So, if you follow the logic of a tie and combine it with the written rule, a tie does in fact go to the runner because the ball did not arrive at 1B BEFORE the runner touched 1B.

All right guys, have at it. But before you do, be prepared to back up your opinions with fact. Someone else's rule book or OPINION doesn't qualify.

[UmpJM]

BigSteve,

Since you have obviously done a much more "in depth" study of this question than any umpire has ever done in the history of baseball, perhaps you could clarify your "groundbreaking conclusion" in the light of the rule language found in 8-4-2i & j.

Thank you for indulging my request.

JM

(P.S. You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.)

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

(P.S. You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.)

You're quite right. He's a troll combining BigUmp56's moniker with San Diego Steve's.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

BigSteve,

Since you have obviously done a much more "in depth" study of this question than any umpire has ever done in the history of baseball, perhaps you could clarify your "groundbreaking conclusion" in the light of the rule language found in 8-4-2i & j.

Thank you for indulging my request.

JM

(P.S. You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.)

We all know that ties go to the umpire, but clearly there is a timing difference in the rulebook between getting to first and getting to all other bases.

[Welpe]

Funny I've had close calls but there don't seem to be ties in my games.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by BigSteve56

At the risk of being bombarded with all sorts of criticism, I'll say it anyway. I'm also not trying to stir up trouble. First of all, ties do in fact exist whether or not you want to believe it. The ball reaching F3 and the B/R touching the base at the same time (a TIE) are mutually exclusive events meaning one is NOT dependent on the other.

No one said ties do not exist. They said the "tie goes to the runner myth" does not exists. Is there room for judgement?

Originally Posted by BigSteve56

Having said that, for an OUT to occur, the ball must reach F3 BEFORE the B/R touches 1B. See 7-4-1f f. after a dropped third strike (see 8-4-1e) or a fair hit, if the ball held by any fielder touches the batter before the batter touches first base; or if any fielder, while holding the ball in his grasp, touches first base or touches first base with the ball before the batter-runner touches first base: Not at the same time or not after, but BEFORE.

No one disputes the "before rule" being discussed above. As JM hinted at, there is another rule(s) in the book that is in direct conflict with your statement above. I am surprised you fail to mention it, as self appointed rulebook interpreter. You may know a bit about rule 7 and the runner, but why do you fail to play defense?

Originally Posted by BigSteve56

Having said that, if the ball and the B/R reach 1B at the same time, meaning that to the umpire's vision, he cannot perceive any difference between the two, you have a PHYSICAL as opposed to a rule book, tie. The rule book does not address the word tie, so from that perspective the statement is true. TIE in the normal sense of the word for ages has meant a simultaneous arrival of the ball and the B/R at the base. Nobody can argue that, we've all heard it since we were kids. So, if you follow the logic of a tie and combine it with the written rule, a tie does in fact go to the runner because the ball did not arrive at 1B BEFORE the runner touched 1B.

If A in bold is true, then B in bold cannot be true. Your statement crumbles under the weight of your logic. The only thing you have proven, is this blather of intelligent form defies common sense. Nobody can argue against that! You do not understand it. Please let me know if the meaning of at the same time is before the ball arrives or after the ball arrives? As you stated, the ball did not arrive before the runner. So did the ball arrive after the runner? You stated there was no tie in the rulebook. Please explain why you incorrectly ruled that the runner was safe? The best you can hope for is "I can't decide, it was a tie, so bat again." That doesn't even pass for minority opinion.

Originally Posted by BigSteve56

All right guys, have at it. But before you do, be prepared to back up your opinions with fact. Someone else's rule book or OPINION doesn't qualify.

Gee, handcuffed and I still kicked your ***. Crawl back under your rock. Someone boo this guy! 1,2,3 BOOOOO!

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by BigSteve56

At the risk of being bombarded with all sorts of criticism, I'll say it anyway. I'm also not trying to stir up trouble. First of all, ties do in fact exist whether or not you want to believe it. The ball reaching F3 and the B/R touching the base at the same time (a TIE) are mutually exclusive events meaning one is NOT dependent on the other. Having said that, for an OUT to occur, the ball must reach F3 BEFORE the B/R touches 1B. See 7-4-1f f. after a dropped third strike (see 8-4-1e) or a fair hit, if the ball held by any fielder touches the batter before the batter touches first base; or if any fielder, while holding the ball in his grasp, touches first base or touches first base with the ball before the batter-runner touches first base: Not at the same time or not after, but BEFORE. Having said that, if the ball and the B/R reach 1B at the same time, meaning that to the umpire's vision, he cannot perceive any difference between the two, you have a PHYSICAL as opposed to a rule book, tie. The rule book does not address the word tie, so from that perspective the statement is true. TIE in the normal sense of the word for ages has meant a simultaneous arrival of the ball and the B/R at the base. Nobody can argue that, we've all heard it since we were kids. So, if you follow the logic of a tie and combine it with the written rule, a tie does in fact go to the runner because the ball did not arrive at 1B BEFORE the runner touched 1B.

All right guys, have at it. But before you do, be prepared to back up your opinions with fact. Someone else's rule book or OPINION doesn't qualify.

8-2-8...A runner acquires the right to the proper unoccupied base if he touches it BEFORE he is out.

[BigSteve56]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

8-2-8...A runner acquires the right to the proper unoccupied base if he touches it BEFORE he is out.

Put the two together. One defines the out (7-4-1F), the fielder touching the base with the ball, or tagging the runner BEFORE the runner tags the base, right? 8-2-8 Defines WHEN the runner has ACQUIRED THE BASE; if he touches it before he is out. It doesn't say he has acquired it if he touches the base before the fielder has touched the base or him. It says BEFORE HE IS OUT If the runner and the ball reach at the "same" time, the runner is NOT OUT because of 7-4-1f. BECAUSE HE IS NOT OUT, HE HAS ACQUIRED THE BASE BEFORE HE IS OUT AND THEREFORE HAS SATISFIED THE REQUIREMENTS OF 8-2-8.

Everyone has their own philosophy, and I respect that. I was trying to point out that the way the rule is written, a tie is theoritically possible and that 7-4-1f governs the OUT.

I'm not some self indulgent troll looking to put anybody in their place. I'm trying to address a statement I believe to be false and I backed it up with the written rule, and I got challenged by dash_riprock with another rule. I took that rule along with the original rule, put them together and showed in a logical way that 8-2-8 is not a way to refute 7-4-1f.

I'm not asking anyone to change their opinion. Just read my argument and tell me if you think me logic is wrong. I suspect that there will be many of you who will read it and agree that my logic is correct. Whether or not you are willing to state that here, I don't know. I would like to think that at least one of you would.

After re-reading my OP, I admit I came on too strong, and I apologize for that. I didn't personally attack anyone, although some of you seem intent on attacking me. I can handle it.