Failure to Slide

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

Have you got numbers or anything on this subject?

Just consider the source...

[Rich Ives]

Example: R3 heading home, a tag play is evident HOWEVER, the ball now sails over F2's head or gets by F2. According to the way the rule is written R3 MUST slide even though there is no need to.

How can a tag play be evident if F2 doesn't have the ball?

[PeteBooth]

The definition of evident is not "F2 has the ball". By evident I interpret to mean the old FED terminolgy "imminent in nature" If the USSSA houserule did mean "A fileder has possession of the ball" then that's how they should have worded it.

Also, a runner does not have only 3 choices as was mentioned in the USSSA rule. They can come in "standing up", however, if you go by their "house rule" that is not one of the options.

Personally (and FED is now doing this somewhat) is go by the NCAA ruling concerning collisions. Collision un-avoidabe - play on Collission avoidable then penalize. IMO, FED will also adopt this type language in the years to come.

You cannot take "contact" out of baseball.

Pete Booth

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

The definition of evident is not "F2 has the ball". By evident I interpret to mean the old FED terminolgy "imminent in nature" If the USSSA houserule did mean "A fileder has possession of the ball" then that's how they should have worded it.

Also, a runner does not have only 3 choices as was mentioned in the USSSA rule. They can come in "standing up", however, if you go by their "house rule" that is not one of the options.

Personally (and FED is now doing this somewhat) is go by the NCAA ruling concerning collisions. Collision un-avoidabe - play on Collission avoidable then penalize. IMO, FED will also adopt this type language in the years to come.

You cannot take "contact" out of baseball.

Pete Booth

My interpretation would be that it isn't about "evident", it's about "tag play". No ball, no play. Similar to the LL rule that only kicks in if the fielder actually has the ball.

[PeteBooth]

Rich your answer is the point. Your interpretation would be different from mine so on an so forth.

At least LL's rule is SPECIFIC the USSSA rule is not it's vague in nature

Pete Booth

[DG]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]

If you want to explain the rule to an 11 yr. old then explain by example. If you can get a tape of what Pete Rose did to Ray Fosse, then show it to him and say

You CANNOT do that or any other violent collission we had in the past regarding plays at the plate.

I have two great videos of maliciouis collision at the plate, one when my son (the catcher) was 10 and another when we was 11. These were in Bambino games (Babe Ruth Ripken division was formerly called Babe Ruth Bambino division) at a time when Babe Ruth did not have a malicious contact rule. I wrote Babe Ruth baseball on the subject and included the videos. A couple years later the rule was added to all divisions. I will never know if my letter and videos had any impact on that decision but I hope they did.

11 year olds can definitely be taught what not to do even without videos. By nature they want to avoid malicious contact. They would have to be coached to do it. Teaching them not to do it is easy..

[kylejt]

It all started when they mandating that all players wear helmets. Idiots. It all went downhill from there.

Man, I'm not looking forward to getting old, grumpy and stupid.

[DG]

Originally Posted by kylejt

It all started when they mandating that all players wear helmets. Idiots. It all went downhill from there.

What rule set mandates all players wear helmets?

[kylejt]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]

Do not know about the rest of the country but in my area HS baseball is "low on the totum poll" when it comes to budget allotment.


Pete Booth

That's because that's the place where many umpires start. I was watching a freshman game, and the PU had his feet set in concrete. Never moved from behind the dish to make any call. Taking his mask off was a huge effort, and rarely done.

But what do you expect? Who else can work games at 3pm on a weekday? Hobos, i.e. the low rung on the totum pole.

I hate all this safety stuff too. Helmets! Once they mandated helmets on kids, it all went to HE!! I tell you!

Man, I'm not looking forward to getting old, grumpy, myopic and stupid.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by kylejt

It all started when they mandating that all players wear helmets. Idiots. It all went downhill from there.

Man, I'm not looking forward to getting old, grumpy and stupid.

Getting?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

The definition of evident is not "F2 has the ball". By evident I interpret to mean the old FED terminolgy "imminent in nature" If the USSSA houserule did mean "A fileder has possession of the ball" then that's how they should have worded it.

Also, a runner does not have only 3 choices as was mentioned in the USSSA rule. They can come in "standing up", however, if you go by their "house rule" that is not one of the options.

Personally (and FED is now doing this somewhat) is go by the NCAA ruling concerning collisions. Collision un-avoidabe - play on Collission avoidable then penalize. IMO, FED will also adopt this type language in the years to come.

You cannot take "contact" out of baseball.

Pete Booth

God, I read that and I wonder how I cope year upon year.

I know: I just call the freaking games and I don't worry about it.

Saturday I had my first games. Pitcher licks hand, goes to the ball, steps on the rubber. Ball 1. Easy.

Obstruction? Even easier this year than before. I'll call it just how they want it.

Why wring your hands over it? Just call the game.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

I don't disagree with that.



I don't if the problem really is Pete Booth, as you go on to say, but I wonder about that last sentence.

I've only been back in the States for about 14 months, now, but "fatalities mounted" ??? What, was there some kind of Jericho-like apocalypse I didn't hear about?

Kids have been killed, this much I know, but from line drives to the chest and head, usually. Is that somehow the fault of Evil Coaching? "Hit that ball in this way, son, so it stops his heart on contact."

Have you got numbers or anything on this subject?

Sure did. Posted in a new thread, got deleted. Take it up with the mystery deldeter since Jenkins isn't doing it.