Non- pivot foot

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rngrck

I worked a couple of games over the weekend and noticed that most of the kids pitching were starting the wind-ups with their non pivot foot in front and/or on side of plate. We let most of this go,but wouldn't this be an infraction from the wind up position??

If the non-pivot foot is on or behind a line EXTENDING through the front of the rubber, it's a wind-up position. If the back of the heel of the non-pivot foot is against the rubber, consider this to be "on" the line, and, thus in the wind-up.

If the entire non-pivot foot is in front of that line, it's the set position.

Note that in neither case must the non-pivot foot be directly in front of the rubber.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the non-pivot foot is on or behind a line EXTENDING through the front of the rubber, it's a wind-up position. If the back of the heel of the non-pivot foot is against the rubber, consider this to be "on" the line, and, thus in the wind-up.

If the entire non-pivot foot is in front of that line, it's the set position.

Note that in neither case must the non-pivot foot be directly in front of the rubber.

6-1-3 Straight from the FED rule book:

Before starting his delivery, he shall stand with his entire non-pivot foot in front of a line extending through the front edge of the pitcher of the pitcher's plate and with with his entire pivot foot in contact with or directly in front of the pitcher plate.

This to me has always signified the pitcher is given special permission to contact the front of pitcher's plate in the set position only. 6-1-2 gives no mention of how a pitcher is to contact the rubber. I've seen the slide presentations Tee mentions, so I feel something is amiss somewhere.

[rngrck]

Note : these kids were pitching in the wind up motion with their non pivot foot way in front of the plate. I believe per NFHS rules, this is a violation. Are you saying we should let this go as long as the foot is near the plate?

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by rngrck

Note : these kids were pitching in the wind up motion with their non pivot foot way in front of the plate. I believe per NFHS rules, this is a violation. Are you saying we should let this go as long as the foot is near the plate?

aren't they going to simply step further back anyway w/ their non-pivot foot if they start out that far in front?? the best pitchers in baseball take a very small step backward in their windup...if kids are doing this, it sounds more like a coaching problem to me than an umpire issue

[socalblue1]

And most pitching coaches follow OBR which now officially permits this windup position. (We ignored it in the past anyway but now it's in the book).

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

And most pitching coaches follow OBR which now officially permits this windup position. (We ignored it in the past anyway but now it's in the book).

Yeah, but we could still call that a set position since it definitely looks like a set position.

I think what the rule change was trying to say was that the free foot can be SLIGHTLY in front of the rubber.

[johnnyg08]

okay, the pitcher isn't going to step directly on the pitcher's plate either wind-up or stretch...to anybody who has ever pitched before, know that while the pitcher may start in contacting a part of the rubber, essentially they're pushing off of the part below the dirt...to me, unless I'm visualizing this incorrectly seems a bit like over officiating to me.

[rngrck]

Agree Johnny, but I'm talking about the wind up motion here only.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

6-1-3 Straight from the FED rule book:

Before starting his delivery, he shall stand with his entire non-pivot foot in front of a line extending through the front edge of the pitcher of the pitcher's plate and with with his entire pivot foot in contact with or directly in front of the pitcher plate.

This to me has always signified the pitcher is given special permission to contact the front of pitcher's plate in the set position only. 6-1-2 gives no mention of how a pitcher is to contact the rubber. I've seen the slide presentations Tee mentions, so I feel something is amiss somewhere.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying, but I think you are reading something into the rule that isn't there.

For the wind-up position, the *entire* pivot foot need not be on or in front of the rubber. For the set position it must be (that's the second caluse of the sentence you quote). See 6.1.1A

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying, but I think you are reading something into the rule that isn't there.

For the wind-up position, the *entire* pivot foot need not be on or in front of the rubber. For the set position it must be (that's the second caluse of the sentence you quote). See 6.1.1A

yes.

[bossman72]

Steve:

The rule clarification was meant to stop pitchers from doing stuff like this and calling it a "wind up":

https://www.eofficials.com/ESO_Repos...tin%20%204.swf

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying, but I think you are reading something into the rule that isn't there.

For the wind-up position, the *entire* pivot foot need not be on or in front of the rubber. For the set position it must be (that's the second clause of the sentence you quote). See 6.1.1A

I understand what you're saying, but the only case play that addresses it is 6.1.1 SITUATION A. All other case plays use the phrase, "F1 steps on the pitcher's plate". What I was getting at was, the only time the pitcher may legally contact the front of the rubber is from the set. The few times I've seen a pitcher start a windup with his heel up against the plate, they lose contact with the rubber during their deliveries way before they should.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

The few times I've seen a pitcher start a windup with his heel up against the plate, they lose contact with the rubber during their deliveries way before they should.

Then it's a balk (or illegal pitch) for pitching while not in contact with the rubber. The startign position, though, is legal, and if the pitcher maintains contact (and it's easy to do so), then the pitch is legal.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

6-1-3 Straight from the FED rule book:

Before starting his delivery, he shall stand with his entire non-pivot foot in front of a line extending through the front edge of the pitcher of the pitcher's plate and with with his entire pivot foot in contact with or directly in front of the pitcher plate.

This to me has always signified the pitcher is given special permission to contact the front of pitcher's plate in the set position only. 6-1-2 gives no mention of how a pitcher is to contact the rubber. I've seen the slide presentations Tee mentions, so I feel something is amiss somewhere.

I think we went through a similar discussion with you on this subject on another site. You are saying that because it says that in the set position, you need to be on the front edge of the rubber, then it must mean that you cannot be there from the windup. This is not what the rule says. 6-1-3 says you must stand that way in the set position. It doesn't say that you can't also stand that same way in the windup. Just because a rule allows or mandates something for one instance, it doesn't necessarily mean that it prohibits such action in another instance. That is just faulty logic, again. You certainly can work the windup with your pivot foot against the front edge of the rubber. I've seen it happen on all levels.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I think we went through a similar discussion with you on this subject on another site. You are saying that because it says that in the set position, you need to be on the front edge of the rubber, then it must mean that you cannot be there from the windup. This is not what the rule says. 6-1-3 says you must stand that way in the set position. It doesn't say that you can't also stand that same way in the windup. Just because a rule allows or mandates something for one instance, it doesn't necessarily mean that it prohibits such action in another instance. That is just faulty logic, again. You certainly can work the windup with your pivot foot against the front edge of the rubber. I've seen it happen on all levels.

Steve,

A legal windup position requires the pitcher to face the batter (Shoulders square to HP in NCAA speak). If F1 doesn't do that it's a stretch position.

While many umpires ignored this in the past, think about the unfair advantage in allowing this position with R3. I'm not talking about a minor technical balk as that can easily be OOO.

The NCAA video is a perfect example of a non-legal windup in all rule sets.