All Outs Are Not In The Rules

[fitump56]

WoodyUmp posted that all outs can be defined, justified and referenced byt the rules.

http://forum.officiating.com/showpos...7&postcount=21

Don't know which rules he means but this statement is false by all rules I know (OBR, NCAA, FeD, Pony, Dixie, LL, AABC blah) including local rules.

[UmpJM]

fitump56,

To me, an interesting question.

After reflection, I found Forest's assertion to be true.

Perhaps you could provide an example which supports your point...

JM

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

fitump56,

To me, an interesting question.

After reflection, I found Forest's assertion to be true.

Perhaps you could provide an example which supports your point...

JM

Fair enough. An extreme one, I have others.

Billy Martin is coaching the Yanks, it's 1977. Reggie "Steroids Not Me " jackson is in RF and suddenly dies of a massive heart attack. Before anyone can see Reggie flop to the ground, B hits a screamer to RF and Jackson's rigor mortis glove hand has the ball stick in it.

According to OBR, a player must "assume and field his position" calling to question how a dead man can do either.

[SAump]

Situation 1: Pitch is delivered right down the middle of the strike zone for the perfect strike. The ball is less than ten feet from the plate when the sprinkler system in the infield is activated. The batter couldn't resist the temptation to offer at the perfect pitch and hits a sharp grounder to the shortstop. The batter doesn't hesitiate and starts running for first base. The shortstop gloves a "wet" grounder and makes the throw in time to get the out at first base. You make the call!

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Fair enough. An extreme one, I have others.

Billy Martin is coaching the Yanks, it's 1977. Reggie "Steroids Not Me " jackson is in RF and suddenly dies of a massive heart attack. Before anyone can see Reggie flop to the ground, B hits a screamer to RF and Jackson's rigor mortis glove hand has the ball stick in it.

According to OBR, a player must "assume and field his position" calling to question how a dead man can do either.

Who says it's an out? The player doesn't have control. OTOH, it is still in flight so if another player takes it out of the glove it is then an out.

[D-Man]

Bring on the others.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

According to OBR, a player must "assume and field his position" calling to question how a dead man can do either.

No such rule exists..................


All defensive players with the exception of the catcher shall be on fair territory when the ball is put into play. Dead or alive he would have met that requirement.


Tim.

[UmpJM]

Besides, the language "quoted" does not exist within the text of the OBR rules, so it's kind of a "moot" point.

JM

[SAump]

Situation 2: No outs, 3-2 count, R1 stealing on the pitch, F1 delivers curveball. RH batter recognizes curve will pass over the plate for a strike and he swings at the last moment. Too late, the ball contacts the batter's hand. As the ball deflects to the ground, the batter continues his follow through with the barrel of the bat passing through the strike zone and over his left shoulder. You make the call.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SAump

Situation 2: No outs, 3-2 count, R1 stealing on the pitch, F1 delivers curveball. RH batter recognizes curve will pass over the plate for a strike and he swings at the last moment. Too late, the ball contacts the batter's hand. As the ball deflects to the ground, the batter continues his follow through with the barrel of the bat passing through the strike zone and over his left shoulder. You make the call.

Dead ball strike............

Batter out; R1 returned


Tim.

[greymule]

In that fascinating play where Reggie Jackson dies but the ball goes into his glove anyway, I'd call it an out and claim that I saw Jackson take his last breath after the ball went into his glove and the required 3 seconds had passed.

But this brings up the question of, What if Jackson was clearly dead when the ball went into his glove—no breathing, no pulse—but he was revived later at a hospital?

I'm searching PBUC, J/R, Evans, etc., for guidance on this possibility.

[MrUmpire]

This thread belongs in the WOBW Hall of Fame. It just might provide the definitive insight to the nagging question: "Is Fitump fit to ump?"

[RPatrino]

Is there any doubt after this thread about the value of the 'ignore' list?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SAump

Situation 2: No outs, 3-2 count, R1 stealing on the pitch, F1 delivers curveball. RH batter recognizes curve will pass over the plate for a strike and he swings at the last moment. Too late, the ball contacts the batter's hand. As the ball deflects to the ground, the batter continues his follow through with the barrel of the bat passing through the strike zone and over his left shoulder. You make the call.

Why do you think this is a difficult call?

[RPatrino]

I have eliminated all the extraneous information from this sitch, what remains is "the ball contacts the batter's hand" .

This makes the call quite simple, does it not?