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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 11:14am
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It's not a balk IF F1 steps toward 1st with his free foot while throwing over. F1 is considered on the rubber since he has not disengaged, and neither a jab nor jump step is a legal way to disengage.

It's a balk if he doesn't throw, and only 1 base if he throws it away.

FED permits a jump turn but is silent on a jab step. Until an interpreter tells me otherwise, I will treat them the same.

[Edited to reflect JM's appropriate comment]

Last edited by dash_riprock; Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 12:30pm.
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 11:30am
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dash,

You might want to reword that 1st sentence - it's pretty hard for a pitcher to balk after he's disengaged.

Tim,

In terms of convincing your association, that's a little trickier.

The only explicit documentation I can find specific to the jab step (distinct from the jump turn) is in J/R. I have the "Rule Differences Edition" which, though framed in the context of OBR, notes FED/NCAA differences with footnoted references. On the discussion of the jab step, there is no difference noted for FED (or NCAA). While this is not "official interpretation", it certainly is "authoritative opinion".

[Edited to add...]
Also, IIRC, the Jim Evans balk video which, though again framed in the context of OBR is diligent in pointing out where FED differences exist, explains this as a legal move and makes no mention of anything being different in FED.
[Edit done]

Further, I might suggest that in both the jump turn and the jab step, the pitcher's pivot foot leaves the rubber in a way that is clearly NOT a legal disengage. So, the rules allow the pitcher's pivot foot to leave the rubber in a move treated as "from the rubber". The purpose of the rule is to insure that the pitcher step with his freet foot to the base he is throwing on a pick-off. As long as the move is fluid and continuous, and the free foot gains "direction and distance", it has met the intent of the rule.

I'd probably try something along those lines. Plus, if it's legal in OBR (and NCAA), and there's nothing in FED documentation that says it's not legal, it's probably legal.

John
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Last edited by UmpJM; Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 10:20pm.
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 05:56pm
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If it was a day game, would we rule differently??

(Smart ***, I know)
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 09:32pm
rei
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Errrrrrr....As I recall, you may only disengage from the rubber by stepping BACKWARDS from it. Otherwise, the rule is pretty clear that his non-pivot foot must step directly towards the bag as the first move.

So, he can step BACK, but not sideways with the pivot foot.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 12:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rei
Errrrrrr....As I recall, you may only disengage from the rubber by stepping BACKWARDS from it. Otherwise, the rule is pretty clear that his non-pivot foot must step directly towards the bag as the first move.

So, he can step BACK, but not sideways with the pivot foot.
Don't have a rule book handy with me, but I do believe it to be quite specific on how a pitcher is supposed to disengage the rubber. Our rules guy is very, very good and has never demonstrated what Tim C. has described as the "Maddox Move". If your talking balks in MLB, they are lenient with some pitchers and their moves. I will on occasion see a variation to the move, but it is more of a spin on the pivot foot, step and throw to the base. I never hear any complaints and consider it a move from the rubber.

Heck if you can balk by taking signs off the rubber in FED, a move such as this would surely constitute a balk.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 12:50am
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On what planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler
Don't have a rule book handy with me, but I do believe it to be quite specific on how a pitcher is supposed to disengage the rubber. Our rules guy is very, very good and has never demonstrated what Tim C. has described as the "Maddox Move". If your talking balks in MLB, they are lenient with some pitchers and their moves. I will on occasion see a variation to the move, but it is more of a spin on the pivot foot, step and throw to the base. I never hear any complaints and consider it a move from the rubber.

Heck if you can balk by taking signs off the rubber in FED, a move such as this would surely constitute a balk.
TC did not ask about properly disengaging the rubber. Yes the rulebook is clear about that. He did not ask about making a delivery to the batter. The rulebook is not very clear about that. He did ask about making a legal pickoff move to 1B.

{Of course I see the satire in your statement. I hope others read the satire in my post. }

Last edited by SAump; Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:29am.
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