In 25 words . . .

[Tim C]

. . . or less explain to me the following:

NFHS Rules
Right Handed Pitcher
R1
Outs don't matter
A night game

Pitcher uses the Greg Maddox "Jab Step" (i.e. right foot -- pivot foot -- takes a quick step towards third base and F1 turns quickly and throws to first).

Under NFHS Rules explain to me why this is not a BALK.

Regards,

[UmpJM]

Tim,

Because, by custom and practice, it is treated the same as the "jump turn" move which is explicitly allowed.

JM

[Tim C]

JM, nice start.

So how do I document to my local association of umpires "custom and practice?"

How do I convince the "rules mavens" that even though it is not in print that in Chicago and Portland a "jab step" is not a balk?

Regards,

[dash_riprock]

It's not a balk IF F1 steps toward 1st with his free foot while throwing over. F1 is considered on the rubber since he has not disengaged, and neither a jab nor jump step is a legal way to disengage.

It's a balk if he doesn't throw, and only 1 base if he throws it away.

FED permits a jump turn but is silent on a jab step. Until an interpreter tells me otherwise, I will treat them the same.

[Edited to reflect JM's appropriate comment]

[UmpJM]

dash,

You might want to reword that 1st sentence - it's pretty hard for a pitcher to balk after he's disengaged.

Tim,

In terms of convincing your association, that's a little trickier.

The only explicit documentation I can find specific to the jab step (distinct from the jump turn) is in J/R. I have the "Rule Differences Edition" which, though framed in the context of OBR, notes FED/NCAA differences with footnoted references. On the discussion of the jab step, there is no difference noted for FED (or NCAA). While this is not "official interpretation", it certainly is "authoritative opinion".

[Edited to add...]
Also, IIRC, the Jim Evans balk video which, though again framed in the context of OBR is diligent in pointing out where FED differences exist, explains this as a legal move and makes no mention of anything being different in FED.
[Edit done]

Further, I might suggest that in both the jump turn and the jab step, the pitcher's pivot foot leaves the rubber in a way that is clearly NOT a legal disengage. So, the rules allow the pitcher's pivot foot to leave the rubber in a move treated as "from the rubber". The purpose of the rule is to insure that the pitcher step with his freet foot to the base he is throwing on a pick-off. As long as the move is fluid and continuous, and the free foot gains "direction and distance", it has met the intent of the rule.

I'd probably try something along those lines. Plus, if it's legal in OBR (and NCAA), and there's nothing in FED documentation that says it's not legal, it's probably legal.

John

[RPatrino]

If it was a day game, would we rule differently??

(Smart ***, I know)

Errrrrrr....As I recall, you may only disengage from the rubber by stepping BACKWARDS from it. Otherwise, the rule is pretty clear that his non-pivot foot must step directly towards the bag as the first move.

So, he can step BACK, but not sideways with the pivot foot.

[SAump]

When the pitcher jump turns or jab steps, his center of gravity is directly below him and in front of the pitcher's plate. {23}

It is impossible for him to turn left without moving his pivot foot in the direction of 3B, unless he were to back up first. {25}

OR shorter

There is no requirement to back up or step off the back of the plate during a legal pickoff attempt. {20}

As long as he is in contact with the ground and his lead foot steps in the direction of 1B, his attempt meets the legal requirement of a pickoff move. {30}

Out of the "hole" in 25 words or less?

The fastest possible jab step occurs when the pivot foot steps directly toward 3B and the non-pivot foot steps in the direction of 1B {45-degrees}. {25}

Originally Posted by Tim C

(i.e. right foot -- pivot foot -- takes a quick step towards third base and F1 turns quickly and throws to first).

Under NFHS Rules explain to me why this is not a BALK.

Regards,

This to me appears to be a move with the pivot foot first. Indeed, if he is doing a jump turn, that is a different story, because both feet are supposedly leaving the ground at the same time. In what was described, the pivot foot is stepping towards third base. This is deceptive. His NON-PIVOT foot must step directly towards a base, not his pivot foot.

I don't see where the confusion is. It is a freaking balk the way it is described.

Crap, and now I just caught the "why it is NOT a balk". I have nothing. I would balk that all day.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by SAump

If Bigump56 read this post before TC deletes it, he can no longer claim that it is impossible to throw a rising fastball, or softball. TC, thank you very much for the LIFT I needed to prove it was possible.

Thank Daniel Bernoulli

[UmpJM]

rei,

Have you seen this, from the MLBUM:

(i) It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pick-off move to first base by first moving his foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with the non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pick-off move is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base.

or this, from J/R:

Following are two steps that are legal.

A. "Jab" Step (of the pivot foot): In cases of a right-handed pitcher throwing to first, or a left-handed pitcher throwing to third, or any pitcher throwing to second, a pitcher can take a "jab" or "stutter" step with his pivot foot before stepping to the base with his free foot. ....

It's legal. If you balked it all day, you would be wrong (and protestable) all day.

JM

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

rei,

Have you seen this, from the MLBUM:



or this, from J/R:



It's legal. If you balked it all day, you would be wrong (and protestable) all day.

JM

I see. So what pages in the NCAA and NFHS rule books did you get these out of?

[UmpJM]

rei,

The NCAA and NFHS rule books (not to mention the OBR) do not say anything about the "Jab Step" move. The J/R quote above is from the "rule Differences Edition", which diligently notes differences between OBR and NCAA. There is no difference noted.

This is the most authoritative opinion I have been able to find on the subject.

Have you got anything other than your (mistaken) interpretation that it is illegal?

JM

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

rei,

The NCAA and NFHS rule books (not to mention the OBR) do not say anything about the "Jab Step" move. The J/R quote above is from the "rule Differences Edition", which diligently notes differences between OBR and NCAA. There is no difference noted.

This is the most authoritative opinion I have been able to find on the subject.

Have you got anything other than your (mistaken) interpretation that it is illegal?

JM

For FED, I believe you should review the balk rule before you claim I am "mistaken".