What is the Point of Playing in the Rain?

[UMP25]

Good points, Steve, regarding people in different parts of the country watching baseball, because I think one of the main reasons why the major sports are more popular is because of viewing choices, especially ones like the NLF Sunday Ticket on DirecTV, Major League Baseball's Extra Innings (DirecTV and cable), etc.

People who watch games via those methods aren't counted among traditional ratings, which tends to skew things downward. However, those packages do result in more people in more areas watching the games.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The NBA Playoffs run during the basketball season ...

I would certainly hope so, or they'd NEVER get any viewers.

Michigan is the example I used. I could have talked about any number of programs across the country and they fill their stadiums even when their teams are horrible.

Again, would they fill their stadiums if they played almost every day of the week? You still haven't answered that.

Also the fact you keep talking about 162 games also makes my point. The season is too long.

Every professional sports team is too long, the NBA and the NHL the longest. (The NBA is the only sport that spans all four seasons of the year--beginning in autumn and ending in summer.)

Just admit this sport is not what it was and likely will never be. The next thing you will tell me is Hockey is still relevant.

I won't admit it because it's not true. And what's hockey?

[jimpiano]

The NFL owes it popularity, in part, to gambling. More people bet on pro football than any other sport, from legal bookmaking in Las Vegas, to illegal bookmaking everywhere else down to the thousands of office pools. That transceneds into more people interested in watching the games.

[JRutledge]

Numbers do not lie. If all you have is the number of games as apart of your argument than baseball is in very big trouble. None of that has anything to do with why the average public does not know anything about top players all over the country. Todd Helton has been a long time player on the Rockies and I bet the average person would not know him if he robbed them at gun point and he wore a Rockies Jersey on.

The NFL has a network. ESPN runs NFL programming off-season. NFL Films captivates the passion of the sport of football. The NFL Draft is not only an event, but a major production on two networks.

The NBA has a network also. ESPN also runs NBA programming during the off-season until the regular season. The NBA can have a lot of scandal and everyone is talking about their top players even when they are involved in the scandal.

MLB cannot fill certain stadiums during the post-season. When the Cubs, Yankees and Red-Sox do not play in the post season the public stops watching the post season. MLB did not even market their best moment of the year, instead let speculation and other scandal tamper with something that is not proven.

Once again, it is the MLB Post-Season. You should be able to crush NFL games with teams that will not even make the playoffs. Maybe baseball was once a big deal, but it certainly is not that way anymore. And the numbers of how many kids are playing it is also a factor in that whether you or I want to accept it or not.

Peace

[UMP25]

Sorry, but the number of kids playing is NOT a factor because it's a faulty comparison. When sports such as football require two to four times as many participants, the numbers are grossly skewed in its favor. Obviously math wasn't one of your best subjects at school.

BTW, MLB is finally doing something right by finally starting their own network up in the next 18 months. They've been a bit behind the 8 ball over the last few years and it's shown. However, to imply that they've been relegated to basically an also-ran is another ridiculous assertion.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The bottom line is MLB is no longer the America's Past time. Kids do not play it as a playground game anymore (they do not even play video games with the MLB logo without making the game freakishly arcade-like and totally unrealistic). When they do play it is so organized I wonder if the kids are actually having any fun. And the major pro league does not even let the public know who their best players are and I am sure the scandals do not help either. When I was a kid I knew all the top players and there as not the 24 ESPN and Sports cycles the way there is today.

Just admit this sport is not what it was and likely will never be. The next thing you will tell me is Hockey is still relevant.

Peace

First, I don't recall baseball ever beating out football for ratings. That's not breaking news. But I don't know what playgrounds are like in your area, but out here I see pickup games played by kids all the time. Stickball, Wallball, 3 Flys Up, Pepper, regular hardball, or whatever. There is the world famous annual OMBAC Over-The-Line tournament (played with softballs, but by baseball fans and players) that grows in popularity every year.

Baseball is still alive and well here on the West Coast. Sure, when I was a kid I knew who all the top stars were. I also knew who all the everyday players were. I had shoeboxes full of baseball cards and those little metal discs that were so cool. I could quote stats all day. That was a different time then. There is so much more for kids to do these days and not as much emphasis is being placed on the traditions of the game. Today's youth doesn't give a crap about who Willie Mays or Joe DiMaggio were. But the last I checked, there are still millions of adult baseball fans who have been fans all their lives, and they still consider baseball to be the American Pastime. So many people live and breathe baseball. The kids who don't care haven't taken over anything yet.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Numbers do not lie. If all you have is the number of games as apart of your argument than baseball is in very big trouble. None of that has anything to do with why the average public does not know anything about top players all over the country. Todd Helton has been a long time player on the Rockies and I bet the average person would not know him if he robbed them at gun point and he wore a Rockies Jersey on.

The NFL has a network. ESPN runs NFL programming off-season. NFL Films captivates the passion of the sport of football. The NFL Draft is not only an event, but a major production on two networks.

The NBA has a network also. ESPN also runs NBA programming during the off-season until the regular season. The NBA can have a lot of scandal and everyone is talking about their top players even when they are involved in the scandal.

MLB cannot fill certain stadiums during the post-season. When the Cubs, Yankees and Red-Sox do not play in the post season the public stops watching the post season. MLB did not even market their best moment of the year, instead let speculation and other scandal tamper with something that is not proven.

Once again, it is the MLB Post-Season. You should be able to crush NFL games with teams that will not even make the playoffs. Maybe baseball was once a big deal, but it certainly is not that way anymore. And the numbers of how many kids are playing it is also a factor in that whether you or I want to accept it or not.

Peace

What stadium has not been filled in MLB postseason?
Barry Bonds was not a scandal?
Major League Baseball is still a big deal, it is just not as big a deal as football, thanks to gambling.

[UMP25]

Steve,

There is one irrefutable fact that JR cannot deny: Baseball is still America's nostalgic sport, a game that has charm and character unlike any sport. No other sport has served as integral a part of our nation's history as has Baseball.

Its charm, its allure, its history, its nostalgia, its sense of wonderment and more has not been matched at all by football, basketball, or any other sport.

James Earl Jones's character in Field of Dreams says it quite well, BTW. His speech on Ray's field brings some tears to my eyes every time I hear it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

First, I don't recall baseball ever beating out football for ratings. That's not breaking news. But I don't know what playgrounds are like in your area, but out here I see pickup games played by kids all the time. Stickball, Wallball, 3 Flys Up, Pepper, regular hardball, or whatever. There is the world famous annual OMBAC Over-The-Line tournament (played with softballs, but by baseball fans and players) that grows in popularity every year.

There are not doing it anymore. Not a bunch of kids all by themselves with no dids around. I do see kids all the time shooting at a basket or playing some kind of basketball game at a park or in a recreational center. I see more adults playing softball or 16' softball than I ever seen any kids doing this.

When I was a kid we played all kinds of baseball type games before all this organized baseball became popular.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Baseball is still alive and well here on the West Coast. Sure, when I was a kid I knew who all the top stars were. I also knew who all the everyday players were. I had shoeboxes full of baseball cards and those little metal discs that were so cool. I could quote stats all day. That was a different time then. There is so much more for kids to do these days and not as much emphasis is being placed on the traditions of the game. Today's youth doesn't give a crap about who Willie Mays or Joe DiMaggio were. But the last I checked, there are still millions of adult baseball fans who have been fans all their lives, and they still consider baseball to be the American Pastime. So many people live and breath baseball. The kids who don't care haven't taken over anything yet.

And it is alive in Texas and Florida and even Louisiana where it is warm most of the year. No arguing that. But in the Midwest Basketball is clearly king and many kids play football and basketball and never want to play baseball.

And my contention was not about the adults. But there is going to come a time when the people who grew up watching baseball are not going to be around anymore. When I was a kid a lot of African-Americans wanted to play baseball. Now it is rare to even see a team with a lot of Black kids even want to play baseball. Hispanics are playing more baseball than African-American kids and in some cases the African-American kids are some of the better athletes and would easily transition to baseball. ESPN did a story about college conferences like the MEAC and the SWAC which are all Traditionally Black Institutions and most of them hardly had a single Black kid on those teams. And these are schools were well over 95% are Black. I have been to HS where the entire Basketball Team is Black and the entire baseball team is white.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

What stadium has not been filled in MLB postseason?
Barry Bonds was not a scandal?
Major League Baseball is still a big deal, it is just not as big a deal as football, thanks to gambling.

Atlanta and Florida come to mind. And Florida is in a baseball hot bed in this country. FSU, Florida and Miami tend to be the top college teams in the country with their home grown talent.

You can bet on just about any sport too. So it has to be more than just betting if you ask me. Maybe people do not see action in baseball. I know it is hard for me to watch an entire baseball game from start to finish and I umpire games.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Steve,

There is one irrefutable fact that JR cannot deny: Baseball is still America's nostalgic sport, a game that has charm and character unlike any sport. No other sport has served as integral a part of our nation's history as has Baseball.

Its charm, its allure, its history, its nostalgia, its sense of wonderment and more has not been matched at all by football, basketball, or any other sport.

James Earl Jones's character in Field of Dreams says it quite well, BTW. His speech on Ray's field brings some tears to my eyes every time I hear it.

It is obvious that I am not the only one missing it. There must be a lot of others missing as they watched an 0-5 football team play another 3-2 football team in a market that only a few people in that region of the country think about. And there is more buzz in the country about a South Florida team at the top of the college polls than a Colorado team going to the World Series. When players come out of HS and they are more known to the sporting public than a baseball star, it is obvious there is not much nostalgia going on.

Peace

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Atlanta and Florida come to mind. And Florida is in a baseball hot bed in this country. FSU, Florida and Miami tend to be the top college teams in the country with their home grown talent.

You can bet on just about any sport too. So it has to be more than just betting if you ask me. Maybe people do not see action in baseball. I know it is hard for me to watch an entire baseball game from start to finish and I umpire games.

Peace

Boy you are all over the place.

Florida has never been a hotbed for MLB.
FSU and Miami are struggling in college football, and have been for several years.
Florida, is the defending National Champion, but has won only 2 in its history.

The only reliable "hotbed" in Florida is the NFL.

The NFL makes sure that the competition is keen by giving successful teams tougher schedules the next year, and easier ones for the struggling teams. The draft gives the worst team first dibs on the best college player and revenue sharing insures that small market teams get an infusion of cash to bid for the more costly players.

And, yes, gambling sparks more interest in the games. The Super Bowl is the most watched sporting event in America and, by far, has the most money bet of any sporting event.

Baseball can use its postseason to showcase what is still a great game.
But putting it on the air with rain coming down and fans shivering under parkas and slickers up against the NFL when it could have easily waited for a better night is silly.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Boy you are all over the place.

Florida has never been a hotbed for MLB.
FSU and Miami are struggling in college football, and have been for several years.
Florida, is the defending National Champion, but has won only 2 in its history.

The only reliable "hotbed" in Florida is the NFL.

The state of Florida has one of the highest rated areas for baseball players coming out of HS. I was not talking about MLB. They tend to have a lot of top players because they can play baseball year-round. It is also a well recruited football state where some of the best football players in the country come from. I think you need to do a little research. This also applies to other states like California and Texas that also are highly recruited in both football and baseball. FSU, Miami and Florida in college baseball tend to be ranked every year as well as Texas and many California or west cost teams. Not sure where you got the college football references from. I was not talking about college football.

Originally Posted by jimpiano

The NFL makes sure that the competition is keen by giving successful teams tougher schedules the next year, and easier ones for the struggling teams. The draft gives the worst team first dibs on the best college player and revenue sharing insures that small market teams get an infusion of cash to bid for the more costly players.

The draft works the same way in MLB. This year was the first year they had a live telecast of MLB draft and hardly anyone watched. Most of the baseball players you will not ever see make it to a MLB roster ever in their career. The NFL and the NBA drafts will almost always see the first view rounds of players playing on those teams at some point. The NBA you are almost guaranteed a spot unless you are from oversees where those draft picks have some options.

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Baseball can use its postseason to showcase what is still a great game.
But putting it on the air with rain coming down and fans shivering under parkas and slickers up against the NFL when it could have easily waited for a better night is silly.

Well almost every post season in football has a game or two with bad weather and the fans not only love it, they relish in the experience (shirts off in 30 degree and lower temperature). Some of the most famous games in NFL history were played in the elements. Dallas-San Francisco in the rain and mud. Oakland-New England in the "tuck rule" game in a covered snow. When the Buffalo Bills had their run, they played many games in the post season in bad weather on the way to the Super Bowl. Those fans (and there were many more in the stadium) did not seem to complain and the weather was not nearly as bad on Sunday as in the examples I just gave. So I have two words for those fans. "Man UP!!!"

Peace

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

FSU, Florida and Miami tend to be the top college teams in the country with their home grown talent.

Miami has won the CWS twice in the last 20 years. The others you mention have never won the CWS,

[Interested Ump]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Baseball is no longer "America's pastime" Baseball is strictly a Regional sport

Originally Posted by UMP25

Hardly. That's a ridiculous assertion, and if it were true, the same could be said about other sports that play their games every day or almost every day of the week.

Can't prove you wrong since there are no other sports that have a daily schedule. Pete Booth is right.

I'm not convinced baseball was ever our national pastime. National WASP pastime maybe. We have never had a real, true national pastime unless you want to consider war a pastime.