Beating myself up about this one...

[BigTex]

Read the OP. Tuss did not have a swing, called the pitch a ball, nobody asked for an appeal. the count should now be 1-2. BU threw him under the bus. We can talk all we want about when to go for an un-requested appeal, but that is not what happened. Me and BU are having a serious heart-to-heart after the game.

[JJ]

In a case like this, if I see the catcher take off for the ball and hear people yelling, that's a tipoff to me that I might have missed something obvious to everyone but me and this might be a good time to ask for help.

Been there, done that. Learned from it.

JJ

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by JJ

Been there, done that. Learned from it.

Ah, this is the magical part that seems to elude so many.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by BigTex

Read the OP. Tuss did not have a swing, called the pitch a ball, nobody asked for an appeal. the count should now be 1-2. BU threw him under the bus. We can talk all we want about when to go for an un-requested appeal, but that is not what happened. Me and BU are having a serious heart-to-heart after the game.

Originally Posted by Steve Tyler

No appeal, no strike.

What's so hard to understand?

The both of you fabricated a strike out of thin air.

Wrong.

It doesn't matter if no one asked for help; the base umpire should give it immediately in such situations. It's called a voluntary strike and is an excellent mechanic to employ.

When the batter can become a runner on a ball that gets away from the catcher, the base umpire rules on a check swing without waiting for the request for help from his plate partner. The MLBUM explains this, and it is an approved mechanic under OBR and NCAA. The problems it prevents is worth it.

[TussAgee11]

Just to review the thread so I fully understand what should have / could have been done.

1) I could have appealed it myself immediately to BU if I suspected batter may have attempted

OR

2) BU could have taken the liberty of yelling "HE WENT" while signaling with his fist.

Either one of these would have been fine, correct?

[DG]

There is, of course, another possibility, ie your partner was wrong on his assessment. Next time you have a checked swing on a 3rd strike not caught go to BU immediately, as soon as it is clear the catcher did not catch it.

[TussAgee11]

his assessment of an attempted swing? probably not, considering even the offensive coach admitted it was obvious that he swung (clearly I just didn't see it in my peripheral vision).

or did you mean something else DG?

[DG]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

his assessment of an attempted swing? probably not, considering even the offensive coach admitted it was obvious that he swung (clearly I just didn't see it in my peripheral vision).

or did you mean something else DG?

No, I meant what I said. Nothing I had read so far convinced me your partner was correct. The offensive coach had some words for you, but admits the batter swung. So what did he say?

[TussAgee11]

The coach basically said he was upset and questioned "well why not point right away?" He continued to say "How is my runner supposed to know if he has to run?" I really couldn't answer either of these questions because I knew he was right.

I told him my partner saw a swing, first base was tagged, and there was no way we could not have an OUT (In alot terser words). He then said "Well its obvious he swung, I'm fine with it, let's play".

The coach was fairly young (maybe in college) and appeared to have been around baseball long enough to know these things aren't life and death like other parents and coaches think.

Still, that doesn't make me feel any better about it.

Does that clear it up DG?

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Just to review the thread so I fully understand what should have / could have been done.

1) I could have appealed it myself immediately to BU if I suspected batter may have attempted

OR

2) BU could have taken the liberty of yelling "HE WENT" while signaling with his fist.

Either one of these would have been fine, correct?

#2) Not "could have" but should have for the base umpire.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Wrong.

It doesn't matter if no one asked for help; the base umpire should give it immediately in such situations. It's called a voluntary strike and is an excellent mechanic to employ.

When the batter can become a runner on a ball that gets away from the catcher, the base umpire rules on a check swing without waiting for the request for help from his plate partner. The MLBUM explains this, and it is an approved mechanic under OBR and NCAA. The problems it prevents is worth it.

I'm not saying what you have posted is incorrect. It is an excellent mechanic when the situation calls for it. Gives the offense and defense adequate notice to run and make a play. In the play of the original post, unless the base ump gives his ruling immediately, an appeal from the defense to get a strike should have been made. The batter didn't even know a strike had been called on him, except in the base ump's mind. Saying, "I would have rung up him if you would have asked", doesn't cut it.

What I'm getting at is, no action by umpire or defense equals no strike. Unfortunately, every post seems to enhance the situation in the original topic.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

In the play of the original post, unless the base ump gives his ruling immediately, an appeal from the defense to get a strike should have been made.

No such help is needed in this situation. The base umpire should immediately rule whether he swung or not. This is exactly why a "voluntary strike" is a recommended and approved mechanic. I can tell you this much: umpires who utilize the voluntary strike will find themselves more highly rated in the long run.