MLB suspends Winters

[Dave Reed]

Several posters have said that Meachem initially alledged racial remarks, and then later softened his stance, and have characterized this as lying.

Does anyone have a link which quotes Meachem claiming that racial remarks were made? The closest that I am aware of is a report in the San Diego Union-Tribune. http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...s24padres.html
"Asked whether what Winters said had racial overtones, Meacham, who, like Bradley, is black, replied, “It smacked of that tone.”

I have trouble seeing this as anything other than Meachem expressing an impression, and it hardly qualifies as "lying." In fact his impression might be accurate; only those who were there are even entitled to have an opinion on the tone of the "discussion." I can see, however, ESPN or others reporting this as a racial allegation, and then later "backing off" their reporting.

Anybody know of a more definitive quote?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

"Asked whether what Winters said had racial overtones, Meacham, who, like Bradley, is black, replied, “It smacked of that tone.”

I have trouble seeing this as anything other than Meachem expressing an impression, and it hardly qualifies as "lying."

1. I would disagree. That statment by Meacham, to me, is that what Winter's said smacked of racial overtones. Compared to what he later said when he quoted what was said, that was a lie.

2. Unfortunately, often when ESPN and FOX update an ongoing story on their website. (indidated by the tag they put under the blyline, e.g. "updated 3 hours ago") they give the updated story the same URL as the original, thus the original is not saved to their site.

They were two of the outlets that reported that Meacham gave two references to race, the first being that Winters' comments were racial, the second being that Winter's comment could be taken as racial. Only after MLB got involved did both FOX and ESPN report that Meacham's story changed again so that there was no reference to race and instead he began giving the exact quote.

Additionally, the quote was reported on ESPN's Sports Center and Around The Horn.

[cmckenna]

2. Unfortunately, often when ESPN and FOX update an ongoing story on their website. (indidated by the tag they put under the blyline, e.g. "updated 3 hours ago") they give the updated story the same URL as the original, thus the original is not saved to their site.

Try this: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Does anyone have a link which quotes Meachem claiming that racial remarks were made? The closest that I am aware of is a report in the San Diego Union-Tribune. http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...s24padres.html
"Asked whether what Winters said had racial overtones, Meacham, who, like Bradley, is black, replied, “It smacked of that tone.”

I have trouble seeing this as anything other than Meachem expressing an impression, and it hardly qualifies as "lying."

Given what Winters actually said, I don't believe that a reasonable person would conclude that "it smacked of that tone." More plausibly, Meacham saw an opportunity to mislead the press by giving the impression that Winters had used racist language, when in fact he had not.

Deliberately deceiving others who deserve the truth is a lie in anyone's book. This might not be "beyond a reasonable doubt," but I suppose that each of us is entitled to his own impression of Meacham.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Given what Winters actually said, I don't believe that a reasonable person would conclude that "it smacked of that tone." More plausibly, Meacham saw an opportunity to mislead the press by giving the impression that Winters had used racist language, when in fact he had not.

Winters uttered considerably more words than just "FPOS." I don't think any of us know what those words were or the tone.
Also, "smacking of a racial tone" is not "racist language." Tone refers to that which isn't explicitly said.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Winters uttered considerably more words than just "FPOS." I don't think any of us know what those words were or the tone.

So you're guessing. I repeat: given what he said, it's unreasonable to assert what Meacham did.

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Also, "smacking of a racial tone" is not "racist language." Tone refers to that which isn't explicitly said.

I agree with the latter, but the former doesn't follow. I believe racist language includes language "smacking of a racial tone."

[canadaump6]

Time for this thread to be locked. It's off-topic and has gone beyond the three page maximum.

[UMP25]

As usual.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Time for this thread to be locked. It's off-topic and has gone beyond the three page maximum.

1. I have not heard tell of the demise of the moderator, nor his placing you in charge of the locking of the threads at this time.

2. The thread is very "on-topic." I just read through the posts and they are all still dealing with the suspension of Mike Winters, which has many facets, many new developments, and has not yet run its course.

3. The three page maximum only applies to your threads

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Time for this thread to be locked. It's off-topic and has gone beyond the three page maximum.

1) How is it off topic? It deals with how an umpire should (or shouldn't) act, how MLB is different from amateur ball and what an appropriate penalty is.

2) What "three page maximum?"

I do agree that it's getting a bit repetitive, though.

[NFump]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

1) How is it off topic? It deals with how an umpire should (or shouldn't) act, how MLB is different from amateur ball and what an appropriate penalty is.

2) What "three page maximum?"

I do agree that it's getting a bit repetitive, though.

Besides, I haven't posted and asked the question........