Milton Bradley and Mike Winters

[tcblue13]

I know this is a sport from another forum but, the situation is worth discussing here. Certainly, no official conclusions have been drawn regarding the incident but the ramifications are serious for umpires. It has never even occurred to me that a player could be baited by an umpire targetting him for ejection. I guess I am just naive. I know coaches try to get into our heads all the time. I always thought we were supposed to leave it in the past once play resumed. I realize if someone is chirp chirp chirping and is told to stop and they don't, there should be consequences. I guess what I am asking is this: Is it ever appropriate to bait a player or a coach to get him or her tossed? I would think not. Have you ever seen or heard of it happening? I have not, but, I have heard other blues tell me that they warn the coaches in the plate meeting not to argue balls and strikes just so they can prevent any chirping and they would toss a coach on a simple "Little high, blue." If Bradley was baited in some way, it certainly calls the integrity of a 17 year MLB umpire into question.

[Steve M]

Obviously, we don't know what happened there.

"It has never even occurred to me that a player could be baited by an umpire targetting him for ejection. I guess I am just naive." Yup, you are naive to certain kinds/types of umpires.

"I guess what I am asking is this: Is it ever appropriate to bait a player or a coach to get him or her tossed? I would think not." I agree. There is no need to help a participant eject himself. And the vast majority of them will do just that, eject themselves.

"Have you ever seen or heard of it happening?" Yup, lots of times - primarily by those working the little ball game, once by a softball ump, and a number of times by basketball folks. I don't do basketball, so ...
I have told the baseball guys and the softball guy that the first time they do that in a game I'm working with them, that will be the last game we work together.

In adult ball, I am a strong believer in the "FU" call. Used properly, it is a very effective tool. But, that's in response to a player's inappropriate action. For me, or another umpire, to take the inappropriate action of starting the confrontation would be wrong. For an umpire to bait a player, or even "chirp" at a player about a poor play (but wouldn't we all just love to chirp about "...way to kick that one short, you just cost your team the lead." ) - that would be wrong.

[NCASAUmp]

I can't say that I've "baited" players or coaches just for the fun of it, but I have used it in the past when players habitually push the line with the ol' passive-aggressive tactics. You know the players I'm talking about - the ones who constantly make the game miserable for everyone: the other team, the umpires, and sometimes his own team.

I don't make it a habit by any means, but when I've had enough of a mouthy player or coach, I've carefully gotten them to slip up and cross the line. It went something like this when a player slid into home plate, and the catcher (world class jerk) thought the runner's elbow hit him...

Catcher (to runner, grabbing his arm): Thanks for the elbow, buddy, I really appreciate it.
Me: Catcher, you let me handle it.
Catcher (sarcastically): What? I said, "thank you."
Me: I also don't appreciate any sarcasm on my field.
Catcher: Well, I'm not trying to be a d*ck about it.
Me: You're gone. (League has a very strict "no vulgarities" rule - leave it alone, Mike.)

I received a standing ovation from the entire crowd, and I heard a number of "it's about time someone got him!"

I don't condone the casual baiting of players or coaches, but when someone is constantly pushing it over and over again... Sometimes, you've just gotta find a way.

[3afan]

some MLB umps are arrogant SOBs

[Rich]

Originally Posted by 3afan

some MLB umps are arrogant SOBs

And some players have a history of being a-holes. Bradley is a prime example of that.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

And some players have a history of being a-holes. Bradley is a prime example of that.

No question of that - a-holes exist - everywhere. And you treat an a-hole like an a-hole. But, that does not make it acceptable to become an a-hole. If this major league umpire did instigate or initiate the chirping - at that time - then he has become the same kind of a-hole that Bradley consistantly shows he is.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Steve M

...And you treat an a-hole like an a-hole. But, that does not make it acceptable to become an a-hole...

This is a very concise summary of the position we are in as umpires. We must hold ourselves above the actions of the (occassional) a-hole players and coaches.

I find it interesting that in the NCAA SB rulebook, written mostly by the coaches, that the umpires have about 50 entries under "code of conduct" and the coaches have about 10.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Andy

I find it interesting that in the NCAA SB rulebook, written mostly by the coaches, that the umpires have about 50 entries under "code of conduct" and the coaches have about 10.

If you want to be technical, there are 11 entries for coaches under "Code of Conduct," in the NCAA 2007 Softball Rules book, while there are only 10 for umpires. Just wanted to set the record straight.

[3afan]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

And some players have a history of being a-holes. Bradley is a prime example of that.

definitely

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Steve M

"I guess what I am asking is this: Is it ever appropriate to bait a player or a coach to get him or her tossed? I would think not." I agree. There is no need to help a participant eject himself. And the vast majority of them will do just that, eject themselves.

That's correct. I would never bait a player. However, if I see him heading for the hook, I'm probably not going to stop him from taking the hook.

"Have you ever seen or heard of it happening?"

I was accused once, but I didn't do anything wrong. Player scooped a line drive off the dirt and threw the ball away allowing two runs to score. He then claimed he caught the ball in flight. Partner confirmed the "no catch" call upon request.

Guess who was leading off the next half inning? Yep, he came up to the plate, BS this, FU that, etc. The catcher asked me a couple of times why I'm taking this crap. I told him it was okay, I've got the situation under control. After a bit more mumbling, Bubba popped up the the SS. When he picked up the bat on the way back to the 3B dugout, he did exactly what I expected, gave me more crap and told me he would see me in the parking lot. Well, that did it. Only thing is that he left the park before the game was over and his automatic 2-game suspension turned into the end of the season and the first week of the next.

What a shame

In adult ball, I am a strong believer in the "FU" call.

Can't (or cannot or can not) do it. My brain will not permit me to intentionally make the wrong call.

[tcblue13]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...II4&refer=home

[JPRempe]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...II4&refer=home

Sounds like he did something inappropriate...or at least it was questionable enough to be suspended.