MLB suspends Winters

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

From one of Garth's responses



Perhaps someone can repost the link to this infamous episode as IMO it is the crux of the discussion.

During the exchange for the most part all you heard is the word F**k coming from both Earl and Haller.

Did Earl go to MLB and accuse Haller of "baiting him" or using profanity - NO. It was the accepted practice back then.

Here ya go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or1_1Cktdvs

Included you'll hear Haller tell Weaver: "You're full of sh!t", "Phuck you" and "You ain't no phuckin' good, Earl."

Today, Haller would suspended for the rest of the season.

[mattmets]

Haller also told him he would be in the Hall of Fame "for what, *ucking up World Series, Earl?"

Such a personal attack today would probably get an umpire hung!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mattmets

Haller also told him he would be in the Hall of Fame "for what, *ucking up World Series, Earl?"

Such a personal attack today would probably get an umpire hung!

I still don't see the similarity between using a word in a conversation (which your example is, not a personal attack), and using the word in a personal description of someone. Doesn't anyone understand that name-calling is totally different from just using a bad word in a sentence?

"You're horsesh*t" and "you're a piece of horsesh*t" are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.

I'm sure Weaver thought what Haller said was funny as hell. I thought it was when I first heard it years ago. I don't recall Haller calling Weaver a "*ucking piece of sh!t" or I would have remembered it.

There is also a thing called context. Even if Haller had called Weaver a name, Weaver probably would have just called Haller a name back. You don't call a player with a reputation as an explosive hothead a name to which he is certainly going to react violently.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I still don't see the similarity between using a word in a conversation (which your example is, not a personal attack), and using the word in a personal description of someone. Doesn't anyone understand that name-calling is totally different from just using a bad word in a sentence?

You don't think "You ain't no phuckin' good" is personal? I think if Winters had said that to him, Bradley would have gone off just as he did.

I'm sure Weaver thought what Haller said was funny as hell.

You'd be wrong to think that. Weave hated Haller and said so several times. He complained to the league numerous time, both trying to get Haller transfrered and fired.

There is also a thing called context. Even if Haller had called Weaver a name, Weaver probably would have just called Haller a name back. You don't call a player with a reputation as an explosive hothead a name to which he is certainly going to react violently.

Now you want umpires to be responsible for the actions of the players. Even if they act the part, players aren't babies. They need to be held accountable for their own actions. Being an explosive hothead is no reason to be allowed to be an explosive hothead, even for phuckin piece of sh!t like Bradley.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Garth, there is a big difference between saying "you're no (whatever) good" and "you're a (whatever) piece of (whatever).

A coach can tell me I'm no f-ing good and all he will get is ejected.

The same coach calls me a f-ing piece of sh!t is likely to see me sometime later and be spitting out chiclets.

I guess I'm just a piece of sh!t like Bradley, because I probably would have wanted to punch Winters too if he had called me that.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

A coach can tell me I'm no f-ing good and all he will get is ejected.

The same coach calls me a f-ing piece of sh!t is likely to see me sometime later and be spitting out chiclets.

I guess I'm just a piece of sh!t like Bradley, because I probably would have wanted to punch Winters too if he had called me that.

I doubt that you are that similar to Bradley, but we certainly look at some things differently.

Both of the statements would get the same result from me, an ejection. I put violent replies to verbal attacks aside a long time ago.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I put violent replies to verbal attacks aside a long time ago.

I don't wanna grow up, I'm a Toys 'R' Us kid.

[Dave Reed]

Several posters have said that Meachem initially alledged racial remarks, and then later softened his stance, and have characterized this as lying.

Does anyone have a link which quotes Meachem claiming that racial remarks were made? The closest that I am aware of is a report in the San Diego Union-Tribune. http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...s24padres.html
"Asked whether what Winters said had racial overtones, Meacham, who, like Bradley, is black, replied, “It smacked of that tone.”

I have trouble seeing this as anything other than Meachem expressing an impression, and it hardly qualifies as "lying." In fact his impression might be accurate; only those who were there are even entitled to have an opinion on the tone of the "discussion." I can see, however, ESPN or others reporting this as a racial allegation, and then later "backing off" their reporting.

Anybody know of a more definitive quote?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

"Asked whether what Winters said had racial overtones, Meacham, who, like Bradley, is black, replied, “It smacked of that tone.”

I have trouble seeing this as anything other than Meachem expressing an impression, and it hardly qualifies as "lying."

1. I would disagree. That statment by Meacham, to me, is that what Winter's said smacked of racial overtones. Compared to what he later said when he quoted what was said, that was a lie.

2. Unfortunately, often when ESPN and FOX update an ongoing story on their website. (indidated by the tag they put under the blyline, e.g. "updated 3 hours ago") they give the updated story the same URL as the original, thus the original is not saved to their site.

They were two of the outlets that reported that Meacham gave two references to race, the first being that Winters' comments were racial, the second being that Winter's comment could be taken as racial. Only after MLB got involved did both FOX and ESPN report that Meacham's story changed again so that there was no reference to race and instead he began giving the exact quote.

Additionally, the quote was reported on ESPN's Sports Center and Around The Horn.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

Does anyone have a link which quotes Meachem claiming that racial remarks were made? The closest that I am aware of is a report in the San Diego Union-Tribune. http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...s24padres.html
"Asked whether what Winters said had racial overtones, Meacham, who, like Bradley, is black, replied, “It smacked of that tone.”

I have trouble seeing this as anything other than Meachem expressing an impression, and it hardly qualifies as "lying."

Given what Winters actually said, I don't believe that a reasonable person would conclude that "it smacked of that tone." More plausibly, Meacham saw an opportunity to mislead the press by giving the impression that Winters had used racist language, when in fact he had not.

Deliberately deceiving others who deserve the truth is a lie in anyone's book. This might not be "beyond a reasonable doubt," but I suppose that each of us is entitled to his own impression of Meacham.