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Old Tue Sep 18, 2007, 09:11am
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Pitching Change Situation

I manage a fall team (mostly 15/16) playing under High School rules. Last evening we had this scenario.
My starting pitcher had gone 3 innings and was going out to start the 4th inning. My 1B was trotting across the field going to his position to begin warming up the infield. On the way he decided to throw a pitch to our catcher. He used the infield ball, not the game ball that was laying on the mound. The umpire immed. called me out and indicated that my 1B had to face at least one batter since he threw a warmup pitch.

Is there any rule to back up his ruling ? Any help would be appreciated.
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2007, 09:21am
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Lets see fall ball, meaningless games, many players are playing football etc. should be a laid back atmosphere while he may be right tell 1B to knock it off go to his position and lets play ball. This is an opportunity for bench players to earn playing time in the spring. Just my opinion.
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2007, 09:36am
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Ahem!

Under NFHS rules the umpire was incorrect.

Simply picking up a ball and throwing from the pitcher's plate does not mean there was a change.

Sadly, I am not surprised that the umpire made an incorrect ruling. We see here on this page how often errors (myth building) occur.

Regards,
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2007, 09:42am
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Rule 3-1-2 requires that when a pitcher "is replaced while his team is on defense...." the substitute must satisfy the pitching requirement of one batter, etc.

Rule 3-1-1 says that, when a substitution is not "announced", the substitute "has entered the game when the ball is live and ... [the substitute] pitcher takes his place on the pitcher's plate."

I can't seem to find anything in the Casebook, although, iirc, there was a case on the FED website a couple years back.

My take on the above [subject to someone finding a published Case], is that your F3 has not "entered the game" as a pitcher, thus he is not a "replacement" for F1, and is not bound by the pitching restrictions.

Still... 15/16 HS players? They ought to know not to do stoopid junk like that.
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Old Tue Sep 18, 2007, 08:00pm
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under pro rules the umpire would have been correct. NFHS rules requires the ball to become live to make all unannounced subs official. however, under pro rules i probably would have let this one go and/or used preventative officiating to rectify the problem.
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2007, 01:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocks99
I manage a fall team (mostly 15/16) playing under High School rules. Last evening we had this scenario.
My starting pitcher had gone 3 innings and was going out to start the 4th inning. My 1B was trotting across the field going to his position to begin warming up the infield. On the way he decided to throw a pitch to our catcher. He used the infield ball, not the game ball that was laying on the mound. The umpire immed. called me out and indicated that my 1B had to face at least one batter since he threw a warmup pitch.

Is there any rule to back up his ruling ? Any help would be appreciated.
Welcome Rocks99

Yes, by OBR (Officials Rules Of Baseball) which the pros use, technically, he "warmed up"; high school, nope.

Fall ball sometimes can be more "entertaining" for umpires as many coaches get their chance in Fall, it becomes important o them and to many players who are trying to make th HS team thru Fall participation. A lot of those players are on the fringe of being cut/selected.

Umpires often fall into the same category, perhaps a bit over authoratative for the season.
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2007, 05:25pm
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Would it not be true (even in OBR) that he would have to throw more than what was allowed for the returning pitcher? I mean, he threw one pitch. Starter has four more to warm up for the inning. If F3 had thrown six pitches, I'd say he's the new F1.

But without that confusion...in FED he hasn't done anything, the ball is dead, and must be live for the unannounced sub to be "in the game."
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2007, 05:48pm
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Cool

ManInBlue,

In OBR, the player has entered the game as a legal (though unannounced) substitute when he steps on the rubber, per:

Quote:
3.08

If no announcement of a substitution is made, the substitute shall be considered as having entered the game when --

(1) If a pitcher, he takes his place on the pitcher’s plate;
...
In regards to FED, they add the stipulation that the ball be "live" before the substitution is "validated". This makes me wonder what caused the ball to become "dead" in the OP posed.

JM
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Old Wed Sep 19, 2007, 09:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManInBlue
Would it not be true (even in OBR) that he would have to throw more than what was allowed for the returning pitcher? I mean, he threw one pitch. Starter has four more to warm up for the inning. If F3 had thrown six pitches, I'd say he's the new F1.
One from the rubber will do but OP didn't state if that he threw from the rubber to be exact.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2007, 01:39pm
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One Q matter in this case

1. It is fall ball
2. Did F3 throw a strike with his one pitch?

If he did, then keep him there!!!!!

If not, yell at him and get him where he belongs!!!!!
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2007, 02:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)
In regards to FED, they add the stipulation that the ball be "live" before the substitution is "validated". This makes me wonder what caused the ball to become "dead" in the OP posed.JM
You wouldn't consider the fact that the teams are switching sides and infielders have multiple balls on the field a pretty clear sign that the ball is dead in the OP?
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2007, 10:30pm
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JM - I was thinking of 3-1-2 (injury to F1 cannot complete requirements of pitching to first batter...sub throws more than what is allowed for starter, then starter can't come back in to pitch). It's not relevent to the post. I didn't remember the rule verbatum. At the time of my post, what I remembered seemed like it might fit. It doesn't. Just for the record.
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