That's a balk (video)

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

To be honest, in my little (NCAA D3) world, every move in the video would get a balk call. It would come from the PU, since we still work 2-man in those games. At least it would if *I* was the PU.

His other moves would be acceptable at the MLB level I think.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

A RHP can do what a lefty does, except he can does it toward 3rd base, as opposed to first. The identical move!

The difference is that a move toward 1st is more common and more useful. Pickoff attempts at 3rd are very rare.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

He can do it but IME a RHP rarely gets the leeway of non pivot foot landings significantly toward home as the LHP does, not even close.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

After reading your post, I remembered having a coach argue the direction of the foot when a RHP stepped to 3B. (identical to the argument we all have on LHP). I'm not sure why it didn't come to me sooner.

I'd contend that the move, if illegal, doesn't get called when RHP doesn't throw to 3B, just the step and feint. And many of those steps are immediately followed by a turn to 1B. One may not notice "distance and direction" as easily when he makes so much movement. I'd like to think that on tha actual pick off attempt at 3B it would be called the same as LHP to 1B. But in reality, they probably have more leeway than LHP for the fact that you pointed out, it's not seen as often. What I mean is that we are looking all the time for an illegal move to 1B by LHP. We simply watch the move of the RHP to 3B, and when something illegal jumps out, we call it.

IME I havne't seen very many RHP who "test" the rules by landind as far as the LHP in the video. Any ump worth his salt is going to balk that RHP again IME so it is commonly known and not taught to try to take such advantage. A balk here costs a run, at 1B it's an advancement and in small ball, where stealing 2B is more common than not, not much is lost.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Missed that - my bad.

But on that note - RHP faces 3B - he isn't required to throw to 3B. The rules are completely different for 1B and 3B. I understand you are talking about the direction of the step, gaining distance and direction, etc

But I don't understand what revamping you suggest, as the rules are very different for the different bases (regardless of handedness of the pitcher)

Please explain

I am for equality in rules treatment when a throw is made by P regardless of (L)(R)HP. There is no reason that makes any sense why we umpire this way.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

I'd contend that the move, if illegal, doesn't get called when RHP doesn't throw to 3B, just the step and feint. And many of those steps are immediately followed by a turn to 1B. One may not notice "distance and direction" as easily when he makes so much movement. I'd like to think that on tha actual pick off attempt at 3B it would be called the same as LHP to 1B. But in reality, they probably have more leeway than LHP for the fact that you pointed out, it's not seen as often. What I mean is that we are looking all the time for an illegal move to 1B by LHP. We simply watch the move of the RHP to 3B, and when something illegal jumps out, we call it.

Many left-handers employ a technique of masking the placement of their free foot by immediately walking away after making the throw. They do not pose.

In the video, you will notice David Price does this. Most LHP's with a "marginal" move will do this. They usual continue walking toward 1st after making the throw.

Frequently the umpires are as surprised by the pickoff as the runner. The umpires look back at the pitcher, to check on the placement of his free foot, and the evidence is already long gone. So - since they didn't see it - they resign themselves that they'll just have to look closer next time.

Of course, if the umpire is specifically looking for the placement of the free foot ... if he's focusing on it ... the pitcher is screwed if, in fact, he is going beyond the 45-degree line.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

Many left-handers employ a technique of masking the placement of their free foot by immediately walking away after making the throw. They do not pose.

In the video, you will notice David Price does this. Most LHP's with a "marginal" move will do this. They usual continue walking toward 1st after making the throw.

Frequently the umpires are as surprised by the pickoff as the runner. The umpires look back at the pitcher, to check on the placement of his free foot, and the evidence is already long gone. So - since they didn't see it - they resign themselves that they'll just have to look closer next time.

Of course, if the umpire is specifically looking for the placement of the free foot ... if he's focusing on it ... the pitcher is screwed if, in fact, he is going beyond the 45-degree line.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Very good point.

There is one time in particular that come to mind that I would have been picked off had I been the runner. (Adult league) LHP had an increbile move to 1B - I called R1 safe (I think I missed it due to my own surprise) - but became very aware of where F1 placed his foot. He tried it again, and I balked him. Of course he went ballistic saying that I can't call that in a two man, I can't see it. His foot was not far from where he landed when going home - it was rather obviuos.

Do you do college ball, David? If so, are you a member of the Memphis org?

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

... He tried it again, and I balked him. Of course he went ballistic saying that I can't call that in a two man, I can't see it. His foot was not far from where he landed when going home - it was rather obviuos.

The fact that the pitcher is telling you what you can and can't see in a "two man" indicates that he is violating the rule and is relying on the "fact" that it can't be verified. A silly argument.

Do you do college ball, David? If so, are you a member of the Memphis org?

I've only called a few college games in my "career" - all of which were junior colleges. No big time teams. I don't have the time for that. Too much traveling. My real job precludes that kind of commitment.

Most of my experience is at the high school varsity level. And, quite frankly, the better high school teams in this area could have easily defeated the junior college teams that I saw.

This area is a hotbed of high school baseball talent. The state champion usually comes from the west Tennessee area and many of the players get Div I scholarships to big schools, some of whom are drafted directly into professional baseball. Baseball talent here is more recognized than football, which is rather atypical for the south.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

This area is a hotbed of high school baseball talent.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Yes it is - and you've actually understated it. It is a hotbed (still understated) of baseball talent at all ages. It's amazing the number of teams from Memphis that have a lot of talent on them.

[canadaump6]

Watch the "See a Balk, Call a Balk" video if you are unsure about the balk rule. I learned almost everything I know about balks from this tape. It's great to have a visual reference to back up the calls I make. This video provides that visual reference.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Watch the "See a Balk, Call a Balk" video if you are unsure about the balk rule. I learned almost everything I know about balks from this tape. It's great to have a visual reference to back up the calls I make. This video provides that visual reference.

You should consider throwing that video in the trash and buying the Evans DVD on balks.


Balk Video


Tim.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Watch the "See a Balk, Call a Balk" video if you are unsure about the balk rule. I learned almost everything I know about balks from this tape.

This explains a lot.

That video is probably the worst one out there. There is some content that is completely contrary to ML interpretation. I'm amazed it's still sold. I'm more amazed that anyone still buys it.

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by GarthB

This explains a lot.

That video is probably the worst one out there. There is some content that is completely contrary to ML interpretation. I'm amazed it's still sold. I'm more amazed that anyone still buys it.

Can you please explain to me what interpretations the video gets wrong? Nobody in my association has ever questioned it.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Can you please explain to me what interpretations the video gets wrong?

Off the top of my head....check out Dodgeball ref's explanation of when a pitcher is considered throwing to an empty base.

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Nobody in my association has ever questioned it.

I have no doubt that's true.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Can you please explain to me what interpretations the video gets wrong? Nobody in my association has ever questioned it.

This reminds me of the time when, at one our mandatory, preseason umpire meetings, when a DVD series was played regarding the rules. It was completely based on OBR rules. Even the rule reference numbers were of the OBR variety. This is for high school baseball!

Of course, much of it applied, but some of it absolutely did not apply - especially in the area of balks.

It also claimed that stepping on the plate, when hitting a pitched ball, was not a violation unless the entire foot is out of the batter's box when contact is made. That is true under OBR. Untrue under FED.

I looked around the room and everybody was watching the video as if nothing was wrong.

I felt like standing up a screaming, "Do you guys realize this is a video on the wrong set of rules????"

I just shook my head. It was typical. The meetings are supposed to be instructional and are completely useless. In fact, a lot of negative training gets done. We have a horrible organization. It's just a good ole boy network where all the guys who have been around forever listen to themselves talk and tell war stories.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[DG]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

The move that starts at the 37 second mark in the clip should be called a balk by every umpire on the face of the earth no matter what code you're playing under.

Agreed. For the others he may have been stepping on the 45 degree (hard to tell from the video) line but this one was more like 65 degrees.