Phils/Mets: Game ending interference

[Striker991]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I am a Phillies fan. It's the only place in baseball where I openly root for anyone. Been a fan since I was 7 years old and my mother took me to see Schmidt, Bowa, Luzinski, Cash, and the rest of the 1976 Phillies.

That said, I never look at a play with Phillies-colored glasses. It's a long season and a lot of calls are made and even the best teams lose 60 games. This one, however, was a no-brainer. Like I said, the distance from the bag on initial contact was probably OK -- it's the cross-body-block from the WWE that makes it an illegal slide.

As a Phillies fan who had the distinct "pleasure" of watching Marlon Anderson in a Philles uniform, I can say it's the best play I've ever seen him make for the Phillies.

When the Eugene, Or. Emeralds were a AAA Phillies club, I got to see a bunch of them. I have (somewhere) an old Mike Schmidt bat, and baseballs signed by Schmidt, Bowa, Luzinski, Denny Doyle (whatever became of him and Cal Emery?), and many others. The trainer and clubhouse manager, Pete Cera, was a patient of the doctors my mom worked for. We became close friends and he gave me season passes; after the third inning, the ushers would let me sit in box seats that were still empty.

Thanks for bringing back some great memories!

s

[justanotherblue]

Reminds me of a play in the CWS a few years back. Unfortunately they missed it. When the coach came out and asked for help, the umpires had mic's on and were heard discussing it. No one saw the interference. R1 slid in and either pushed the pivoting F6 or grabbed his shirt to prevent a good turn, (it's been a while and I'm old and suffer from CRS), either way it prevented the double play. It is a great call, which was made a great deal easier by his head nearly being taken off by the errant throw and obvious push.

[greymule]

This is the second such call in MLB in the past week, so maybe—whether MLB instructed the umpires to start drawing the line or the umpires are doing so on their own—it's no longer "anything goes" at 2B.

My only problem with the call, as mbcrowder stated, is that there wasn't really a play at 1B. Calling the batter out when there was no chance to get him might belong in Fed, as an extra deterrent to dangerous plays, but I don't know that it should apply in MLB.

If the BR is already across 1B when the runner executes a dirty crash into F4, do we still call the BR out (as in Fed)?

[RPatrino]

That's clipping...or illegal block below the waist, 15 yards.

And it was a great call because CB stood in there and called something other's would have not had the guts to. Way to step up, CB

[Rich]

Originally Posted by greymule

This is the second such call in MLB in the past week, so maybe—whether MLB instructed the umpires to start drawing the line or the umpires are doing so on their own—it's no longer "anything goes" at 2B.

My only problem with the call, as mbcrowder stated, is that there wasn't really a play at 1B. Calling the batter out when there was no chance to get him might belong in Fed, as an extra deterrent to dangerous plays, but I don't know that it should apply in MLB.

If the BR is already across 1B when the runner executes a dirty crash into F4, do we still call the BR out (as in Fed)?

The throw was greatly affected by the illegal slide. Who knows how close the play at first would've been? I saw a Mets fan on another board say that he thinks that the announcers are delusional -- that there definitely was a play at first.

Regardless, should it matter? 7.09(f) only doesn't apply if you decide that there wasn't a play on the batter-runner. Would anyone on a DP pivot be willing to make THAT judgment?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by greymule

This is the second such call in MLB in the past week, so maybe—whether MLB instructed the umpires to start drawing the line or the umpires are doing so on their own—it's no longer "anything goes" at 2B.

My only problem with the call, as mbcrowder stated, is that there wasn't really a play at 1B. Calling the batter out when there was no chance to get him might belong in Fed, as an extra deterrent to dangerous plays, but I don't know that it should apply in MLB.

If the BR is already across 1B when the runner executes a dirty crash into F4, do we still call the BR out (as in Fed)?

No, but that wasn't the case last night.

[greymule]

I agree that if you can remotely make a case that there was a play, you call the interference. Any doubt whatsoever goes to the offended team. "Would have been safe" does not automatically mean there was no play.

On a related line in this thread, if there is no such thing as a great call, then there is no such thing as a bad call. All calls are simply either correct or incorrect.

[David B]

Originally Posted by greymule

I agree that if you can remotely make a case that there was a play, you call the interference. Any doubt whatsoever goes to the offended team. "Would have been safe" does not automatically mean there was no play.

On a related line in this thread, if there is no such thing as a great call, then there is no such thing as a bad call. All calls are simply either correct or incorrect.

I agree with Rich, this was a great call. A great call because it was a game-ending call (that takes lots of guts by any umpire no matter what level) and also because his mechanics were superb completely following the play and the runner and then making the call.

And since you rarely see this call in MLB that qualifies it as such at least IMO.

thanks
David

[RPatrino]

CB's mechanics of avoiding the batted ball, maintaining angle and seeing the play were good, I agree. His signalling was a bit goofy, IMO.

Bottom line, he got the call right, sold it and had the huevos to make the gutsy call.

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by Striker991

...Denny Doyle (whatever became of him...?)

Denny went on to play in the WS with Boston and now runs a baseball school in Florida. He and his brothers, Brian and Blake, started the school in the early-mid 80's.

http://www.doylebaseball.com

[_Bruno_]

Originally Posted by _Bruno_
just to make it sure but, if R3 would have reached homeplate before the interference (and the would have been 0 outs), he would be alowed to score, does he ?

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

No. PBUC/MLB interpretation is that the runner is returned to the time of pitch base unless there is an intervening play.

ok, lets say we have R3,R1, 0 out.
intervening play on R3 at home, he is safe and then the BR interfereces on his way to 1st. R3 is allowed to score. has R1 go back to 1st even if he made it safely into 2nd before the interference ?

but what if we have R2 and R1, the intervening play IS NOT AT HOME PLATE but a try to force out R2 at third but R2 beats the throw and now BR interfereces on his way to 1st. can R2 stay on 3rd ? has R1 (now on 2nd) go back to 1st ?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by _Bruno_

Originally Posted by _Bruno_
just to make it sure but, if R3 would have reached homeplate before the interference (and the would have been 0 outs), he would be alowed to score, does he ?


ok, lets say we have R3,R1, 0 out.
intervening play on R3 at home, he is safe and then the BR interfereces on his way to 1st. R3 is allowed to score. has R1 go back to 1st even if he made it safely into 2nd before the interference ?

but what if we have R2 and R1, the intervening play IS NOT AT HOME PLATE but a try to force out R2 at third but R2 beats the throw and now BR interfereces on his way to 1st. can R2 stay on 3rd ? has R1 (now on 2nd) go back to 1st ?

Return to TOP, unless there's been an intervening play, then return to TOI.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Why is this such a great call? Pretty obvious.

What isn't so great is that it hasn't been called consistently over the years. Guys have been sliding 10 feet from the bag and getting away with it forever.

While I agree with the fact that this was the correct call, I'm still looking for the "great call" here...to me this play was as obvious as a routine fly ball to center and the umpire signaling "out." Was that a great call? Of course we know the answer to that is no. I guess I'm just not sure that correct call = great call on something like this that is fairly black and white...not to mention, these umpires get paid lots and lots of money to make those calls correctly.