How long to wait to make call

[johnnyg08]

watch many BU at 1B...there are many, many times when everybody in the stadium knows that the runner is safe...often times they will not signal "safe"

[Interested Ump]

Originally Posted by tibear

I think evaluator feel they "have" to find something to complain about and timing is something that is so easy to pick on. Just as is being too close or far from the catcher behind the plate.

If you know your evaluator personally, you will know if he is on a power trip or if he is being helpful (or trying to be helpful ). From this information, judge his evaluations.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Tibear, who evaluates your evaluator?

Interesting question. I've had two base evaluations this year.

The first one I was docked because I "cheated" to B with two outs and runners on 2nd and 3rd or 3rd only. This last evaluation I was told that I wasn't going to get docked but I should cheat exactly as I was doing for the first evaluator.

When I questioned the second guy he said something to the effect of, "Yes, that is how the mechanics are written, but if you want to move up and work with everyone else around here you'll cheat to B with two outs."

Just goes to show you that the evaluations are completely personal to the individual evaluators and not judged based on some set criteria.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by tibear

Just as is being too close or far from the catcher behind the plate.

Last year at a tourney, I got "You are standing too far from the catcher" and "You are standing too close to the catcher" from separate evaluators on the same game. You're right - sometimes it's just so they have something to say.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Thanks

In your experience is this accepted protocol at all levels?

I can't speak for all levels, but it works for me for HS and HS-age summer ball. Since it's pro instruction, I would think it would work for higher levels, but I don't have experience with that.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

CO ump's philosophy might be that everybody in the stadium knows that it's an out...so that's why they don't signal. Some will call you a smitty if you signal the ever so obvious in the game of baseball.

I was taught that all plays deserve a call. There may not be a need to include a verbal announcement, but a signal should be made even on the most routine of plays.


Tim.

[Tim C]

"I was taught that all plays deserve a call."

Interesting.

I was taught (as example):

R1 stealing second base.

Throw arrives and R1 slides.

The ball is not caught by the covering infielder and is sitting on the ground.

I would be dinged on my college or high school evaluation if I made a "safe" call of any type.

We do not make calls when a fielder drops (not juggles) a ball. Proper timing stops us from making that call.

Also, if a runner is clearly safe at first base we do not give any type safe call. If we did we would get dinged.

Also on any normal fly ball the PU only says: "That's a catch" if it helps his base umpire who might be pivoting and hae his back to the play.

On a normal fly ball to the outfield (or an infielder that has gone out) and if a BU is inside we do not EVER give a physical "OUT" signal and hardly ever say "that's a catch" . . . (trouble ball are a another issue).

So we have been trained differently.

Regards,

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by tibear

Just had a base evaluation and everything was fine except was told that I make my obvious out call to fast.

Generally speaking if a runner is obviously thrown out at first I wait until the runner clears the base and then take a three or four seconds to then make the out call.

The evaluator wants me to wait until the BR is walking into the dugout before making the call. His rational is that if you wait 10 to 15 seconds on these calls then you will automatically wait the required 3 or 4 seconds on bang-bang plays.

I didn't say anything but to me waiting 15 seconds to make a call is simply stupid. It would be better if I didn't make any call then to stand there on the field and make the out call when the next batter steps into the batters box.

Comments?

Something tells me you are being evaluated to become a level 4 umpire in Ontario. Our level 4 program is a complete joke. They try and turn umpires into robots. Trying to build some kind of a timing mechanism into an umpire is just a way to further roboticize their mechanics. They should be allowing you to make your call as you see fit.

Originally Posted by Tim_C

On a normal fly ball to the outfield (or an infielder that has gone out) and if a BU is inside we do not EVER give a physical "OUT" signal and hardly ever say "that's a catch" . . . (trouble ball are a another issue).

Thank goodness there is an association out there that does not require a loud "That's a catch!" call on every routine flyout or popup. It gets annoying after a while.

Originally Posted by Tim_C

Also on any normal fly ball the PU only says: "That's a catch" if it helps his base umpire who might be pivoting and have his back to the play.

The base umpire should not have his back to the play anyways. The cardinal rule of umpiring is "eyes on the ball at all times". The pivot at first base may be one of the most over-rated mechanics out there. It makes it easier to lose sight of the ball, and is a broken ankle waiting to happen.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Tim C

"I was taught that all plays deserve a call."

Interesting.

I was taught (as example):

R1 stealing second base.

Throw arrives and R1 slides.

The ball is not caught by the covering infielder and is sitting on the ground.

I would be dinged on my college or high school evaluation if I made a "safe" call of any type.

We do not make calls when a fielder drops (not juggles) a ball. Proper timing stops us from making that call.

Also, if a runner is clearly safe at first base we do not give any type safe call. If we did we would get dinged.

Also on any normal fly ball the PU only says: "That's a catch" if it helps his base umpire who might be pivoting and hae his back to the play.

On a normal fly ball to the outfield (or an infielder that has gone out) and if a BU is inside we do not EVER give a physical "OUT" signal and hardly ever say "that's a catch" . . . (trouble ball are a another issue).

So we have been trained differently.

Regards,

The training was pretty much the same on this side of the country. I'll also add on pick-off plays, no effort, no call.

Example: F3 takes a pick-of throw from F1 and doesn't bother to apply a tag, no call.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Tim C

"I was taught that all plays deserve a call."

Interesting.

I was taught (as example):

R1 stealing second base.

Throw arrives and R1 slides.

The ball is not caught by the covering infielder and is sitting on the ground.

I would be dinged on my college or high school evaluation if I made a "safe" call of any type.

We do not make calls when a fielder drops (not juggles) a ball. Proper timing stops us from making that call.

Also, if a runner is clearly safe at first base we do not give any type safe call. If we did we would get dinged.

Also on any normal fly ball the PU only says: "That's a catch" if it helps his base umpire who might be pivoting and hae his back to the play.

On a normal fly ball to the outfield (or an infielder that has gone out) and if a BU is inside we do not EVER give a physical "OUT" signal and hardly ever say "that's a catch" . . . (trouble ball are a another issue).

So we have been trained differently.

Regards,

You're right, Tim. I need to backtrack and say all plays 'deserving' of a call should get a call. I'd get knicked pretty hard if I signaled safe with the ball lying 10 feet away from a bag.

Tim.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

The pivot at first base may be one of the most over-rated mechanics out there. It makes it easier to lose sight of the ball, and is a broken ankle waiting to happen.

Yea, I agree, I think as a Base Umpire I should be allowed to stand behind first no matter what happens on the field. This way I never have to take my "eye" off the ball.

If the PU can get off his butt and watch for the other runners, NOT MY PROBLEM. I am only a BASE, Umpire. I should only have to cover one, at a time.

There is just NO WAY I am going to be caught doing fancy circles in the infield. Besides, if I should happen to fall and break my nails in front of all thoses spectator type people, OH MY GOD, it just gives me chills thinking about it, OH MY GOD.

[mbyron]

If the ball's on the ground, there's no play. No play needs no call.

[DG]

I don't signal obvious safes or obvious outs, calls that grandma from the stands could make.

On out calls that are somewhat close but still easy I give a somewhat easy, just above the waist fist out call. Likewise, for safes I give an easy safe call. No voice on either.

On bangers at any base I give an out or safe call quickly after I am convinced, and with gusto and a loud HE's OUT or SAFE voice call.

[Interested Ump]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I was taught that all plays deserve a call. There may not be a need to include a verbal announcement, but a signal should be made even on the most routine of plays.


Tim.

All?

[johnnyg08]

In my opinion, it's making those obvious calls that will cause you to make errors on those calls that appear to be obvious, then for whatever reason, turn weird...then you end up making two calls or severely get yourself into deep doo-doo...remember, it's not our show out there...if everybody in the stands know that the guy caught the ball on the can-of-corn flyball to F8...they're not watching you anyway...however if that ball ricochets off of his glove because he closed it too soon, you've all of a sudden made two calls and you have to explain to the defensive rat why you called him out and now your changing your call...not saying you owe him an explanation...but now the other 50 fans at the game, who don't know the rules and weren't paying attention are now focusing on the rat who knows the right call, but it out there to put on a show...

bottom line...obvious call/no call...no signal from me..you guys can do your thing, but we have enough calls to make in our games...I'll only make the ones that need to be made.