How long to wait to make call

[tibear]

Just had a base evaluation and everything was fine except was told that I make my obvious out call to fast.

Generally speaking if a runner is obviously thrown out at first I wait until the runner clears the base and then take a three or four seconds to then make the out call.

The evaluator wants me to wait until the BR is walking into the dugout before making the call. His rational is that if you wait 10 to 15 seconds on these calls then you will automatically wait the required 3 or 4 seconds on bang-bang plays.

I didn't say anything but to me waiting 15 seconds to make a call is simply stupid. It would be better if I didn't make any call then to stand there on the field and make the out call when the next batter steps into the batters box.

Comments?

[waltjp]

If he's to be taken literally 10-15 seconds is way too long.

[CO ump]

I was at the Cub cards game yesterday, Pop up behind second, easy out,
2nd base ump Never signaled. he was on the inside, I'm sure it was his call.
Has anyone else noticed no signals on easy pop ups?

Speaking to OP
Was your evaluator saying you're too quick on the the bangers?
If so, you need to do something to correct it, but I agree waiting 10-15 secs on no brainers is way too long and not helping your timing on close plays.

[mick]

Originally Posted by tibear

...I didn't say anything but to me waiting 15 seconds to make a call is simply stupid. It would be better if I didn't make any call then to stand there on the field and make the out call when the next batter steps into the batters box.

Comments?

Good call on your part.

With 2 out and a runner coming in from third, I wonder what he expects F3 to do, make that throw home in case U1 saw "something", or hold onto the ball and wait, ... and wait.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Speaking to OP
Was your evaluator saying you're too quick on the the bangers?
If so, you need to do something to correct it, but I agree waiting 10-15 secs on no brainers is way too long and not helping your timing on close plays.

There was one play with the ball in the dirt and I originally thought I saw the ball in the glove and was going to bang the runner out. As I was starting to stand up to call the out, I saw the ball behind F3's foot. I then quickly lifted both arms and signalled safe saying, "No catch." and then pointed at the loose ball.

The evaluator said that I was "way to early on the call" and need to work on timing. However, that was the only situation where he could point out an early call and there had to be 5 or 6 bang-bang plays that game.

I think evaluator feel they "have" to find something to complain about and timing is something that is so easy to pick on. Just as is being too close or far from the catcher behind the plate.

[mbyron]

Everything your evaluator told you goes against what I was taught.

Umpires do not wait a pre-determined length of time, whether that's a given number of seconds, or some other benchmark (player returns to dugout, etc.).

You need to wait long enough to see everything relevant. On a routine play at 1B, for example, you need to get in position, hands on knees set, read the throw and adjust if necessary. As F3 fields the throw, watch the base and listen for the ball. Unless the runner beats the ball, look to see whether F3 has secure possession of the ball.

Make the call (in your head), then signal. Proper use of the eyes will determine your timing correctly.

CO: routine pop ups get no signal. The rule of thumb is: if the fielder catches it above his waist with no one else around, no signal.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by tibear

The evaluator wants me to wait until the BR is walking into the dugout before making the call. His rational is that if you wait 10 to 15 seconds on these calls then you will automatically wait the required 3 or 4 seconds on bang-bang plays.

Comments?

Ohhhh, Canada.

What if his dugout is on the thirdbaseline? Hell, you could have a new batter up by then. In any case, 15 seconds in a freaking eternity when making a call.

3-4 seconds are required on a banger?

Watch the play, find the ball, make the call. I would never make it appear that I was "still thinking about it" for four seconds after a banger, unless I was in the mood to toss an assistant.

[Interested Ump]

Originally Posted by tibear

Just had a base evaluation and everything was fine except was told that I make my obvious out call to fast.

Generally speaking if a runner is obviously thrown out at first I wait until the runner clears the base and then take a three or four seconds to then make the out call.

The evaluator wants me to wait until the BR is walking into the dugout before making the call. His rational is that if you wait 10 to 15 seconds on these calls then you will automatically wait the required 3 or 4 seconds on bang-bang plays.

I didn't say anything but to me waiting 15 seconds to make a call is simply stupid. It would be better if I didn't make any call then to stand there on the field and make the out call when the next batter steps into the batters box.

Comments?

I always wait to make an obvious out call the time it would take to get a cold brewski from the table to my mouth on a 100 degree cloudless day in Miami.

[PeteBooth]

[

QUOTE=tibear]Just had a base evaluation and everything was fine except was told that I make my obvious out call to fast.

Generally speaking if a runner is obviously thrown out at first I wait until the runner clears the base and then take a three or four seconds to then make the out call.

The evaluator wants me to wait until the BR is walking into the dugout before making the call. His rational is that if you wait 10 to 15 seconds on these calls then you will automatically wait the required 3 or 4 seconds on bang-bang plays.

I didn't say anything but to me waiting 15 seconds to make a call is simply stupid. It would be better if I didn't make any call then to stand there on the field and make the out call when the next batter steps into the batters box.

Comments?

[/QUOTE]

B1 is taught to run out EVERTHING meaning run through the bag even if it's routione. Thereore, I have been taught to allow B1 that 'courtesy" and not signal anything until B1 clears the bag. He knows he's out but he should still run through the bag "just in case"

On bangers yes you wait approx 4 -5 seconds to make certain the ball isn't dropped etc.

Pete Booth

[GarthB]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth][

On bangers yes you wait approx 4 -5 seconds to make certain the ball isn't dropped etc.

Pete Booth

Start your stop watch, ready? Now. 1.....2.....3.....4.....5

Wow. On a banger?

Watch the play, find the ball, make the call.

[RPatrino]

Tibear, who evaluates your evaluator?

[SanDiegoSteve]

My rule of thumb on routine out calls is to wait until I'm sure that F3 (or whoever) is touching the base and has complete control of the ball. At that point, the runner is generally pretty close to passing my position as he is well past the base. I never use any arbitrary, "one Mississippi" or any such artificial method.

This gives me the same timing on bangers. As soon as I determine that there is control of the baseball at the same time the base is touched (on force plays), that's when I make the call. Again, no artificially timing the call.

On bang-gang tag plays, the same principle applies. Wait until there is no possibility that the ball can come flying out of the glove, then make the call.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by mbyron

CO: routine pop ups get no signal. The rule of thumb is: if the fielder catches it above his waist with no one else around, no signal.

Thanks

In your experience is this accepted protocol at all levels?

[Arnold A.]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

On bangers yes you wait approx 4 -5 seconds to make certain the ball isn't dropped etc.

Pete Booth

JMHO,

I've been instructed to listen for the "Thwack" (for lack of a better term)of the ball hitting the glove and the "Thump" of the foot hitting the bag.

If "thump" comes before "thwack", I don't wait, I signal "Safe" immediately.

If "thwack" comes before "thump", I look up to see if the first baseman has possession of the ball, then make the appropriate call.

Again, JMHO.

[johnnyg08]

CO ump's philosophy might be that everybody in the stadium knows that it's an out...so that's why they don't signal. Some will call you a smitty if you signal the ever so obvious in the game of baseball.