Balk on an appeal

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Batter hits the ball to left, misses first base and proceeds to slide in safely at second. He asks for time. The defensive manager tells the pitcher to appeal. He steps on the rubber, in the set position. I put the ball back in play and my partner yells, "That's a balk!" The coach was upset that a balk was called and went balistic when they lost the opportunity to appeal.

I'm wondering why a balk was called here.


Tim.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I'm wondering why a balk was called here.


Tim.

Tim,

When I spoke to the BU, he said he balked him because he stepped onto the rubber with his hands in the set position (the main reason I posted this was because when the pitcher did this, the ball was dead). When I put the ball in play, he cited the fact that the pitcher must come set on the rubber. He was watching this closely, because as soon as I pointed to put the ball in play, he called out, "that's a balk!" Like I said, I have never seen this before!

[BigUmp56]

It wasn't a good call then. He shouldn't have been balked for stepping to the rubber with his hands together, you know that already because the ball was dead at the time. And he shouldn't have been balked for not coming set. He was set when you put the ball back in play.


Tim.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

It wasn't a good call then. He shouldn't have been balked for stepping to the rubber with his hands together, you know that already because the ball was dead at the time. And he shouldn't have been balked for not coming set. He was set when you put the ball back in play.


Tim.

When I spoke to BU after the game, he explained to me that he did not balk him for stepping onto the rubber, in the set position, when the ball was dead. He insisted that because the rule states the pitcher must come set on the rubber it was a balk as soon as the ball became live.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

When I spoke to BU after the game, he explained to me that he did not balk him for stepping onto the rubber, in the set position, when the ball was dead. He insisted that because the rule states the pitcher must come set on the rubber it was a balk as soon as the ball became live.

I still don't care for the call. If your partner was going to be a stickler and insist that the pitcher start with his hand at his side, etc., he shouldn't have balked the pitcher as soon as you put the ball back in play.


Tim.

[waltjp]

I don't like the reasoning behind the balk call either. The BU already had it in his mind that he was going to balk this pitcher before you put the ball in play. He could have done some preventative officiating and told the pitcher to step off and reset.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

When I spoke to BU after the game, he explained to me that he did not balk him for stepping onto the rubber, in the set position, when the ball was dead. He insisted that because the rule states the pitcher must come set on the rubber it was a balk as soon as the ball became live.

You stated FED rules, right? Now, what position did he take the rubber with, windup or stretch? Reason being, if he took the windup, he is allowed to have his hands together and remain that way throughout!

Regards

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

You stated FED rules, right? Now, what position did he take the rubber with, windup or stretch? Reason being, if he took the windup, he is allowed to have his hands together and remain that way throughout!

Regards

Great point Ozzy! Although the runner was on, he took the rubber from the stretch position to appeal. The pitcher wasn't sure about the entire appeal process and the coach did not directly ask BU for an appeal. We've been told by our assignor not to coach a player or coach through the appeal process.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Great point Ozzy! Although the runner was on, he took the rubber from the stretch position to appeal. The pitcher wasn't sure about the entire appeal process and the coach did not directly ask BU for an appeal. We've been told by our assignor not to coach a player or coach through the appeal process.

Okay, FED rules, F1 on the rubber in the set with his hands together. You put the ball in play. F1 is confused but not making any movement to the plate, listens to his coach and steps off (properly).

This is not a balk. Had he delivered to the batter, it would technically be a balk under FED if he didn't stop all motion beforehand. Once he stepped off, F1 was okay.

Your assigner is absolutely correct in what he told you. You are an umpire not a coach. Now, if the coach comes to you and asks how to do an appeal, you can advise him but not the players. Take this information from your assigner throughout your umpiring career and it will alleviate many problems that amateur umpires run into.

Regards

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

When I spoke to BU after the game, he explained to me that he did not balk him for stepping onto the rubber, in the set position, when the ball was dead. He insisted that because the rule states the pitcher must come set on the rubber it was a balk as soon as the ball became live.

Just becaues he "insisted" doesn't make him right.

He was wrong.

And, any coach saying "step off and throw to first" is enough to make an appeal "obvious" in my book. And, I'm likely to say "Time" (if the ball isn't already dead), "What are you trying to do" and when the coach responds rule on the appeal.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Just becaues he "insisted" doesn't make him right.

He was wrong.

And, any coach saying "step off and throw to first" is enough to make an appeal "obvious" in my book. And, I'm likely to say "Time" (if the ball isn't already dead), "What are you trying to do" and when the coach responds rule on the appeal.

Bob, I don't disagree with you! We've been asked by our assignor not to coach a player or coach through the appeal process. The coach was coaching his pitcher as to how to appeal the play. BU informed the coach in between innings that he could have asked him directly for an appeal.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Tim,

When I spoke to the BU, he said he balked him because he stepped onto the rubber with his hands in the set position (the main reason I posted this was because when the pitcher did this, the ball was dead). When I put the ball in play, he cited the fact that the pitcher must come set on the rubber. He was watching this closely, because as soon as I pointed to put the ball in play, he called out, "that's a balk!" Like I said, I have never seen this before!

Oh, my God.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Oh, my God.

Yup. How wrong was the BU - let me count up the ways.

Don't put the ball in play if the pitcher was in the set position with his hands together. Make him start properly -- it's a "don't do that."

Once it's clear they want to appeal in a FED game, don't even make the ball live. Once they make it clear they're going to throw over, figure out a way to rule on the appeal with the dead ball as the rules allow.

[UmpLarryJohnson]

yes in a FED game i just ASK the coach 'what do you wanna appeal?' and rule on it (if its a DEAD ball). FED lets ANY body appeal ANY thing so why not just get it over with?

it should be almost a CRIME to balk a Pitch in FED ball on a appeal. thats OOO x 10