taking signs off the rubber

[BigUmp56]

This is one of the more poorly worded rules in OBR. The rule should be ammended to read:

"The pitcher shall take his signs from the rubber."

The catcher has nothing to do with the intent of the rule. I've heard from ill-informed coaches on numerous occasions that the opposing team's pitcher is taking signs from the stands or dugout, wanting an infraction.

I just tell them it's not who gives the pitcher his signs, it's where he has to take the signs that matters.


Tim.

[kheisner]

OK Mr Umpires......as a coach I have had this called on my pitchers as a "balk" and bases awarded (no quick pitch involved). From what I have been able to see in you forum....it really isn't a balk and this is one of the many myths some umpires still call. IS THAT CORRECT?

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by kheisner

OK Mr Umpires......as a coach I have had this called on my pitchers as a "balk" and bases awarded (no quick pitch involved). From what I have been able to see in you forum....it really isn't a balk and this is one of the many myths some umpires still call. IS THAT CORRECT?

No "real umpire" would call this a balk.

If your pitcher got called for this, some so called umpire read as far as, must be on.. then figured, he's a pitcher, he can't do it, it must be a balk.

Sorry you had to see that.

Coaches there is absolutely no reason to worry about this. It will have no bearing on the outcome, unless, you of course make a deal out of it. And the younger the players the more of a big deal you'll make it.
Remember the younger the players the more excuses for failure they will gladly jump on. And parent and some coaches will follow..don't bite.

How would an umpire possible know if this was being violated.

EX: the sign for a fast ball is "no sign", just bring it big fella.

EX: When I was an F1 if the first sign given was what I wanted, there was no nod or anything, just a wind up.

EX: How about coaches flashing signs to F2, if it's my F1 and I'm coaching, he'll know that what I called is what it's gonna be, so he see the sign from F2 no reason to nod or shake it off, he's going.

EX: F2 goes out and tells F1, now look bonehead, I want a fastball down the pipe, followed by a nice change, then we'll smoke this knuckle head with another fastball on his hands, got it?
There's three pitches with no signs...and he was off the rubber, wow.

This should be stricken from the rules..and even if it isn't, it should be stricken from any good coaches "things to sweat" list.

The rule should read simply, F1 shall not quick pitch..

[SanDiegoSteve]

The pitcher has to be on the rubber when he takes his sign from the catcher. In other words, he can get signs while off the rubber from anyone else in the ballpark, but if he gets a sign from the catcher, he shall be on the rubber when he does so. There is no penalty for violation of this rule. It's a "don't do that anymore" type thing. Just do not allow the pitcher to get his sign and then quickly step on the rubber and pitch when the batter isn't ready. One way you coaches can help put a stop to taking signs off the rubber is to tell your catcher to wait until Skippy gets on the rubber before giving signs. There, problem solved.

Rule 8.01 Legal pitching delivery. There are two legal pitching positions, the Windup Position and the Set Position, and either position may be used at any time.

Pitchers shall take signs from the catcher while in contact with the pitcher’s plate.

Rule 8.01 Comment: Pitchers may disengage the rubber after taking their signs but may not step quickly onto the rubber and pitch. This may be judged a quick pitch by the umpire. When the pitcher disengages the rubber, he must drop his hands to his sides. Pitchers will not be allowed to disengage the rubber after taking each sign.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The pitcher has to be on the rubber when he takes his sign from the catcher.

That's just not correct either.

As the pitcher is approaching the hill, the catcher wiggles his fingers on top of the shinguard for a throw over. That's a sign off the rubber, and perfectly legal.

Or, first and third, and catcher steps up and give his infield, including the pitcher, the play. "Hey man, the pitcher isn't on the rubber!". Another sign, without contact.

It's a dopey rule that's been ignored for many years.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by kylejt

It's a dopey rule that's been ignored for many years.

Dopey? Yes. Ignored? Definitely. Rule? Absolutely.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

It is not illegal for pitcher to take a signal from anyone, including the catcher, while not in contact with the pitcher's plate. But, the pitcher, while in contact with the pitcher's plate, shall take or simulate taking a signal from the catcher.

The requirement, that the pitcher take or simulate taking a signal from the catcher, is in effect when F1 is a pitcher and that only happens when F1 is intentionally in contact with the pitcher's plate. When F1 is not intentionally in contact with the pitcher's plate, he is an infielder who occupies the pitcher's defensive position. NFHS R61-S1-A1 specifically states that the pitching regulations begins when F1 intentionally contacts the pitcher's plate.

F1 taking signals from F2 or anybody else for that matter while not in contact with the pitcher's plate is nothing. It is not a "do not do that again situation" either. When the opposition complains just tell him that F1 has not commited an infraction of the rules and move on.

MTD, Sr.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

It is not illegal for pitcher to take a signal from anyone, including the catcher, while not in contact with the pitcher's plate. But, the pitcher, while in contact with the pitcher's plate, shall take or simulate taking a signal from the catcher.

The requirement, that the pitcher take or simulate taking a signal from the catcher, is in effect when F1 is a pitcher and that only happens when F1 is intentionally in contact with the pitcher's plate. When F1 is not intentionally in contact with the pitcher's plate, he is an infielder who occupies the pitcher's defensive position. NFHS R61-S1-A1 specifically states that the pitching regulations begins when F1 intentionally contacts the pitcher's plate.

F1 taking signals from F2 or anybody else for that matter while not in contact with the pitcher's plate is nothing. It is not a "do not do that again situation" either. When the opposition complains just tell him that F1 has not commited an infraction of the rules and move on.

MTD, Sr.

I would just like to wholeheartedly concur with MTD, Sr.'s synopsis. Well said.

JM

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

...shall take or simulate taking....

How on Earth do you fake taking a sign? Honestly, that makes no sense at all.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by kheisner

OK Mr Umpires......as a coach I have had this called on my pitchers as a "balk" and bases awarded (no quick pitch involved). From what I have been able to see in you forum....it really isn't a balk and this is one of the many myths some umpires still call. IS THAT CORRECT?

Why are we resurrecting threads from two years ago?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Why are we resurrecting threads from two years ago?

Because lately there has been a shortage of interesting ones, I guess.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by kylejt

How on Earth do you fake taking a sign? Honestly, that makes no sense at all.

Look at the catcher.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Look at the catcher.

Thank you.

MTD, Sr.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Look at the catcher.

THAT'S A BALK!