A rather unique question

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Because he knows what it's like to be on the other side of the coin, and should know better.

Because others around him know that he's an umpire... and if it's acceptable for HIM to behave this way to umpires, then it must be acceptable for THEM to behave this way.

And why is the allowing of choice words for an umpire who you don't like considered to be the "standard" by you. The standard should be much higher than it is. Players/coaches behave below the standard ... but being an umpire, he should at least be able to control himself to what's acceptable, and have a better idea than the general fan of what is acceptable.

OK, so how about this?

I'm a coach and an umpire. The guy working the bases is an absolute HORRIBLE umpire and his mechanics are terrible. On base hits, he runs straight for second base and my trained umpire eye notices that he is never even close to looking to see whether the BR touches first.

So, instead of running my mouth, I wait till an appropriate moment and then start appealing every touch of first base (or, indeed, every base touch where I *know* neither umpire has bothered to do his job). I'd probably get ejected eventually, but a call to the assignor afterwards would clear that up, I would think. Too rat-like? Is it too rat-like to expect umpires to be well trained and DO THEIR JOB? I do my job and I've noticed that my check has the same numbers as Smitty's.

Many of you talk about standards and say that since we know how hard it is to umpire, blah, blah, we should behave ourselves, no matter what. How am I (if a coach) being an advocate for my team if I refuse to be an advocate for my team? I don't expect more out of umpire/coaches than coaches. I don't expect more out of umpire/players than players.

Furthermore, I'm convinced now, more than ever, that it's the bad umpires that cause much of the bad behavior that we see on the fields. If an umpire of my caliber (or Bob Jenkins or Tim Christensen or Garth Benham's caliber) worked every game, I honestly think that a lot of the truly egregious stuff I see on the field wouldn't happen. Maybe I'm blowing smoke out my ***, but those teams that know me never give me problems. It's a new thing for me, cause I've never stayed in one place long enough to enjoy that, but this is my 6th season here in Madison now. Would we still have ejections and incidents? Sure, but that's part of the territory.

Let me finish with a story. I assign a 44-team adult wood bat league. The league pays the umpires $70 a game (9-innings). We're in year 3 of a 3 year pay deal, which means that the umpires can look for more money next season. I've talked to at least 4 teams away from the field (likely drinking beer after the games, which I encourage more umpires to do with adult leagues -- picking your moments, of course) who would have no problem paying more for quality umpires, but don't think that the bottom 2/3 of the staff are worth what they are getting now. And I can't really come back with much more than, well, all the umpires need to be paid the same amount of money and you certainly don't want to lose the best ones.

[charliej47]

Rich,

If you honestly picked the top half of those UMPs and assigned them to your leagues and then aggressively policed the games so that the officials could do their jobs. You would find that you would start to loose teams or you would still loose UMPs as you would continue to "see" bad officials.

[SAump]

First college wood bat summer game ever. Punched out 16 for starter over 7 and 3 more for reliever. Final score 5-3 {with 3 unearned}. Catcher ran off at the mouth after the game about how many pitches I missed.

MSBL SA vs MSBL Dallas fall ball. Pitcher tells league president we need better umpires within ear-shot. Final score 14-13. Yeah I may have been terrible, but I may have been equally terrible for both teams. I would have been much better had I been working with better pitchers.

How can anyone improve if they can't get their feet wet. Sometimes these critiques are fair and leave room for improvement. Many just shut doors to better opportunity. That wouldn't be worth the ink it was written in to me.

[DG]

My experience with adult baseball:

Over 40 league guys are just happy to be able to still be playing, on problems.

Over 30 league is pretty good ball with just a few morons who make it tough on umpires, and sometimes their teammates.

Under 30 league is crap. Morons are plentiful, still think they are ready for the bigs and argue just for the sake of argument.

Best summer ball with "adults" is wood bat leagues with college players for the summer.

Of course I am only talking about my area.

[fitump56]

My experience with MSBL baseball:

Over 40 league guys are just happy to be able to still be playing, don't call them.

Over 30 league is pretty good ball with just a few morons who make it tough on umpires, and sometimes their teammates.

Over 18 league is great. Setting the tone early, the morons stay at bay, few think they are ready for the bigs, many have been there, gotten close or know better; rarely argue just for the sake of argument because they know that they will only play once or twice a week and they are going home quick if they step over the line. They notice consistency in the zone, hustling on every play and most appreciate the effort.

Best summer ball with "adults" is wood bat leagues with college players for the summer, called this for a couple of summers, really enjoyable except for the ride out to the boonies.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
When he's a player, he's a player. Why exactly should he be held to any different standard than any other player when he's a participant in a game?

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Because he knows what it's like to be on the other side of the coin, and should know better.

Because others around him know that he's an umpire... and if it's acceptable for HIM to behave this way to umpires, then it must be acceptable for THEM to behave this way.

And why is the allowing of choice words for an umpire who you don't like considered to be the "standard" by you. The standard should be much higher than it is. Players/coaches behave below the standard ... but being an umpire, he should at least be able to control himself to what's acceptable, and have a better idea than the general fan of what is acceptable.

Excellent stuff there, Crowder, you got my on that response.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by aceholleran

• If it's a pro or stadium game, I will toss a barb at an ump I feel is incompetent, without any of the 3 P's.

Ace Ratowski

So much for the brotherhood of umps, eh, Ace? Question; why only pro umps?