A rather unique question

[JFlores]

I had an adult baseball game (I was playing) and I also umpire as well. The gist of the problem is that the plate umpire was horrible (strike zone inconsistent) and I had a few choice words, I stop myself from saying anything crazy to him due to the fact his assignor has asked me to work games for his association (this particular umpire works for that association)....what should I say if I ever work games with him, especially if he remmeber the choice words i had for him.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by JFlores

I had an adult baseball game (I was playing) and I also umpire as well. The gist of the problem is that the plate umpire was horrible (strike zone inconsistent) and I had a few choice words, I stop myself from saying anything crazy to him due to the fact his assignor has asked me to work games for his association (this particular umpire works for that association)....what should I say if I ever work games with him, especially if he remmeber the choice words i had for him.

You are an umpire. You should avoid having "choice words" regardless of your umpire's abilities. You lost that right when you put on the blue. Show some respect.

If you work games with him in the future, you should apologize.

[tarheelcoach]

Since I coach and also officiate, I have worked with plenty of guys who I saw from the 'dark side'. Once, during basketball, I got my only official warning of the season, and then the next day worked with the guy who gave it to me!
I didn't apologize, just told him that I deserved it. He admitted that what I got too excited about was justified, but he kicked it. We laughed about it and moved on.
As long as your not ugly with someone, then I don't see it as a problem - just don't do anything that would cause someone to hold a grudge.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

You are an umpire. You should avoid having "choice words" regardless of your umpire's abilities. You lost that right when you put on the blue. Show some respect.

If you work games with him in the future, you should apologize.

When he's a player, he's a player. Why exactly should he be held to any different standard than any other player when he's a participant in a game?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

When he's a player, he's a player. Why exactly should he be held to any different standard than any other player when he's a participant in a game?

Because he knows what it's like to be on the other side of the coin, and should know better.

Because others around him know that he's an umpire... and if it's acceptable for HIM to behave this way to umpires, then it must be acceptable for THEM to behave this way.

And why is the allowing of choice words for an umpire who you don't like considered to be the "standard" by you. The standard should be much higher than it is. Players/coaches behave below the standard ... but being an umpire, he should at least be able to control himself to what's acceptable, and have a better idea than the general fan of what is acceptable.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Because he knows what it's like to be on the other side of the coin, and should know better.

Because others around him know that he's an umpire... and if it's acceptable for HIM to behave this way to umpires, then it must be acceptable for THEM to behave this way.

And why is the allowing of choice words for an umpire who you don't like considered to be the "standard" by you. The standard should be much higher than it is. Players/coaches behave below the standard ... but being an umpire, he should at least be able to control himself to what's acceptable, and have a better idea than the general fan of what is acceptable.

OK, so how about this?

I'm a coach and an umpire. The guy working the bases is an absolute HORRIBLE umpire and his mechanics are terrible. On base hits, he runs straight for second base and my trained umpire eye notices that he is never even close to looking to see whether the BR touches first.

So, instead of running my mouth, I wait till an appropriate moment and then start appealing every touch of first base (or, indeed, every base touch where I *know* neither umpire has bothered to do his job). I'd probably get ejected eventually, but a call to the assignor afterwards would clear that up, I would think. Too rat-like? Is it too rat-like to expect umpires to be well trained and DO THEIR JOB? I do my job and I've noticed that my check has the same numbers as Smitty's.

Many of you talk about standards and say that since we know how hard it is to umpire, blah, blah, we should behave ourselves, no matter what. How am I (if a coach) being an advocate for my team if I refuse to be an advocate for my team? I don't expect more out of umpire/coaches than coaches. I don't expect more out of umpire/players than players.

Furthermore, I'm convinced now, more than ever, that it's the bad umpires that cause much of the bad behavior that we see on the fields. If an umpire of my caliber (or Bob Jenkins or Tim Christensen or Garth Benham's caliber) worked every game, I honestly think that a lot of the truly egregious stuff I see on the field wouldn't happen. Maybe I'm blowing smoke out my ***, but those teams that know me never give me problems. It's a new thing for me, cause I've never stayed in one place long enough to enjoy that, but this is my 6th season here in Madison now. Would we still have ejections and incidents? Sure, but that's part of the territory.

Let me finish with a story. I assign a 44-team adult wood bat league. The league pays the umpires $70 a game (9-innings). We're in year 3 of a 3 year pay deal, which means that the umpires can look for more money next season. I've talked to at least 4 teams away from the field (likely drinking beer after the games, which I encourage more umpires to do with adult leagues -- picking your moments, of course) who would have no problem paying more for quality umpires, but don't think that the bottom 2/3 of the staff are worth what they are getting now. And I can't really come back with much more than, well, all the umpires need to be paid the same amount of money and you certainly don't want to lose the best ones.

[charliej47]

Rich,

If you honestly picked the top half of those UMPs and assigned them to your leagues and then aggressively policed the games so that the officials could do their jobs. You would find that you would start to loose teams or you would still loose UMPs as you would continue to "see" bad officials.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
When he's a player, he's a player. Why exactly should he be held to any different standard than any other player when he's a participant in a game?

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Because he knows what it's like to be on the other side of the coin, and should know better.

Because others around him know that he's an umpire... and if it's acceptable for HIM to behave this way to umpires, then it must be acceptable for THEM to behave this way.

And why is the allowing of choice words for an umpire who you don't like considered to be the "standard" by you. The standard should be much higher than it is. Players/coaches behave below the standard ... but being an umpire, he should at least be able to control himself to what's acceptable, and have a better idea than the general fan of what is acceptable.

Excellent stuff there, Crowder, you got my on that response.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by JFlores

I had an adult baseball game (I was playing) and I also umpire as well. The gist of the problem is that the plate umpire was horrible (strike zone inconsistent) and I had a few choice words, I stop myself from saying anything crazy to him due to the fact his assignor has asked me to work games for his association (this particular umpire works for that association)....what should I say if I ever work games with him, especially if he remmeber the choice words i had for him.

I'm sorry?

[JFlores]

i guess karma is a b@#ch....today i was doing a freshman hs summer game, man were the fans loud, coach was annoying, and at the end of the game came close to tossing a player.

Bang bang play at the plate, I called the runner out and man I thought all hell was about to break lose...All i could do is smile, my partner said great game, you made the right calls, my strike zone needed some work (bad day it happens). In the end I tell my partners be honest with me as I am trying to get better, he told me i did good that makes me feel better.

The best part I have both of these teams in seperate games tomorrow...doesnt get better than that huh?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JFlores

i guess karma is a b@#ch....toda

I tried sending an e-mail to b@#ch....toda but it said there was no such address.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by JFlores

I had an adult baseball game (I was playing) and I also umpire as well. The gist of the problem is that the plate umpire was horrible (strike zone inconsistent) and I had a few choice words, I stop myself from saying anything crazy to him due to the fact his assignor has asked me to work games for his association (this particular umpire works for that association)....what should I say if I ever work games with him, especially if he remmeber the choice words i had for him.

I would ask the assignor not to pair me with this guy.

Bob

[nickrego]

If you really think the guy is that bad (from your umpire point of view, not your player point of view), then don't work with him. You'll only have one mess after another to deal with.

[Rcichon]

"Hi Joe",
"Whats-up?",
"How are ya doing today?",
"Helluva game last nite eh?",
Other such mundane one-liners.

In short, have a selectively short memory.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

I would ask the assignor not to pair me with this guy.

Bob

Why? Because you asked for honest feedback and got it?