Lessons Learned About Rats

[Don Mueller]

TIM TIm Tim tim

I thought we were making such good progress, I really felt a bond growing between us after finding common ground on parents yelling at umps.
Now I don't think you're even trying.


First things first.

Originally Posted by Tim C

"I feel sad for anyone whose only motivation is money, no matter what the business."

I have found a place for you. Move to "the State of Portland" . . . outside of SF the most liberal place in America. If not Communist at least Socialist . . .

Your philosophy as listed above will fit perfectly.

A more capitalistic, fiscal and social conservative man you will never have the privilege of insulting.
Whatever you have inferred or assumed from my post you're wrong.

Originally Posted by Tim C

I work ONLY for money . . . be it my job or umpiring ("the money" is followed closely by "the power").

So your "only motivation" is not money, but also power, so you'll be happy to know that in this case I do not feel sad for you.

Originally Posted by Tim C

It is odd for me to see someone tell me "my motivation" for working . . .

I never told anyone what their motivation is, was or should be I only said "I feel sad for anyone whose only motivation is money"
Nowhere did I infer what motivates you.

Originally Posted by Tim C

Again Don, we see umpiring (and now the world) differently.

Is there no question left why we are on opposite ends of every issue?

You clearly are motivated to paint me as your opposite regardless of my actual views.
I'm trying so hard to ingratiate myself to you but you keep pushing me away.
Sometimes I think I'm the only one trying in this relationship.

Originally Posted by Tim C

BTW, I would STILL have a cold adult beverage with you.

I'll take you up on it the next time I venture into the land of Karl

[Rich Ives]

Darn guys, it's the coach's job to try to gain an advantage. It's yours to push back. It's a form of negotiation, though one must admit it gets heated at times.

When your kid misses curfew it is accompanied by an excuse that is presented as reasonable. This can create loud discussions. You don't buy it and ground them. But you don't go on the internet and claim your kid is a rat for trying to get you to see it their way.

[Mike L]

I think it is unfortunate that some clearly fail to recognize that the attitude with which they walk onto a field is more often than not clearly evident to everyone else there. And that applies to players, coaches, and umpires. If you are in "confrontation mode" from the outset, it can do nothing but create a confrontation situation which is rarely a good thing. I don't know how you can possibly walk onto a field with the attitude all coaches are rats and all players are baby rats and not think it effects how you call a game and I would submit that it effects it in a bad way. Why the seeming prevalent belief that one must have this sort of attitude to correctly call a game? I just don't get it.
Personally I try to remember that the coaches have a vested interested in seeing the play the way the want to see it. It may be because it's part of their livelyhood, or an ego thing, or simply because his kid is on the team. Yeah, some coaches are a pain, but I really think the ones that are truly worthy of the rat title are few and far between unless I adopt the attitude that any question is an assault on my integrity which will escalate the confrontation. Got news for ya, it's not. They are doing their job just as I'm doing mine of being an impartial enforcer of the rules. If I begin to drift into the "this guy and all like him are rats" thinking then I can't see how impartiallity is possible.
So to end this long boring post, I'll simply relate a recent story about a coach coming out to question a call. He didn't like it, it cost him a run, but I gave him his say. In response I phrased my answer so that he clearly knew what I saw, why I ruled in such a manner and made it clear I didn't hold it against him. As he turned to leave, I heard this comment from the nearby stands (his side btw). "Wow, an umpire with a sense of humor. I didn't know we had any of those around here".

[SanDiegoSteve]

Even those of us who realize that players are rats, and that coaches are rats and coke soakers, walk on the field with professionalism. We cheerfully greet the coaches, shake their hands at the plate or whatever. I don't know many successful umpires that are openly hostile to the participants.

There is a big difference between knowing that they are rats (which is a very generic term), and actually letting that affect your judgment.

I have related the story of the partner who came to the plate meeting and started with, "okay, this is your one warning right now, don't argue with me or your gone, do you understand?" I cringed when I heard this, and would never want to enter into a game with this kind of chip on my shoulder. After the game, I immediately called my assignor and had this guy scratched from ever working with me again.

I believe in being really easy-going until you do something rat-like, and then I will pounce all over you like a hobo on a ham sandwich. But I do not come onto a baseball field with any kind of confrontational attitude. I always give the coaches every opportunity to do their jobs. It's not until they step over the line that we have any problem.

[Don Mueller]

OK J you've goaded me into it:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Don I work three sports, two of them I work college ball and I have yet to answer to any coach about anything.

Kings to you for your officiating prowess and and your upward mobility. (No sarcasm intended)

Fortunately for you there were no business marketing and economic questions on the test.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Most supervisors I work for have expectations and when you meet those expectations; they tend to support you to coaches. I also have never been hired in a conference because a coach liked me. I have been around the block and I have had some very serious conflicts with some coaches over the years only to have the supervisor completely support me. Why? Because I followed procedures and expectations of the supervisor I am currently working for.

Follow the money J. I'm sure your assignors are great guys but are they paying out of their personal accounts?

There are 3 entities in the equation. League/team > Assignor > Umpire
Where does the money come from? Who hires whom?
The customer is the one paying for the services. How many middle men that payment goes through before it gets to the service provider doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Coaches have agendas and they will get mad about anything that does not go their way. When you follow common procedures or rules, the supervisor can easily support you. So you can say the coach is the customer, but not if you know what the hell you are doing they are not.

A general contractor(assignor) is hired to build a building(provide umpiring services), the GC(assignor) sub contracts the fire alarm work(umpiring responsibilities) to an independent fire alarm specialist(FAS)(Umpire). The fire alarm specialist(umpire) installs the system(calls the game) in accordance to specifications(ruleset) provided by the building owner(customer)(league/team). But then the owner(customer)(league/team) decides he wants to eliminate part of the system to save money(wants judgements in his favor). FAS(umpire) says I can't do that,(my integrity is at stake) it's not safe or per code.(Owner)(customer) gets very mad and insists that it's done his way(gets tossed). GC(assignor) steps in and supports the FAS (umpire)because he knows the system has to be put in per code.(knows the customer was a butt and deserved it)
The fact that the owner(customer)(league/team) gets mad or the fact that the GC(assignor) supports or doesn't support the FAS(umpire) does not change who is the owner (customer)(league/team).
Whether the FAS(umpire) is competent or not does not change who is the customer.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not feel sorry for anyone that works for money. Money pays bills, buys things like houses and cars and puts people through college and might even help fun a business. So a lot of people will put up with a lot of things because there is money as apart of deal. I know I would not work many places unless the pay is right.

Reread my post.
I did not suggest anyone work anywhere if the money wasn't right. In fact I never suggested anyone do anything.
And the implication that I feel sorry for anyone that works for money is plain wrong. You have better comprehension skills than that, please use them.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I really do not know why you are so stuck on the opinion people have about coaches.

I simply stated that I would not work a job where everyone or most everyone were liars, cheaters, whiners and child abusers. I also asked the question why would anyone? There's obviously an answer, I just asked the question.
Everyone else seems to be able to share their opinion on coaches, I stated mine albeit as an inference. Why does that mean I'm "stuck on the opinion people have about coaches?"

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by SAump

Dear Coach,

I feel a bond growing between us. I'm trying to ingratiate myself to you but you keep pushing me away. You are motivated to paint me as your opposite regardless of my views. I thought we were making progress, but sometimes I think I'm the only one trying in this relationship. I can only offer so much wine and cheese.

Love, the Ump.

Am I to presume now that an umpire, not a coach, that doesn't buy into the 'all coaches, players and fans are rats, whiners, liars, cheaters and child abusers theory' that said umpire by default becomes a RAT?

Or are you just jealous cause Tim and I have a thing goin?


BTW
Did a 14 travel game solo last night.
Total of 5 coaches
23 players
approx 40 spectators

One run game
2 bangers at first, a caught stealing at 2nd and have no idea if I was right or wrong(that happens on solo games) and a couple missed ball/strike calls.

Not one word from a single player or coach.
One fan in top of 7th yelled that I was blowing the game after a punch out.
Wasn't even one of my missed calls

I prefer the Innocent until proven guilty approach. It seems to work well in other aspects of our society.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

Dear Coach,

I feel a bond growing between us. I'm trying to ingratiate myself to you but you keep pushing me away. You are motivated to paint me as your opposite regardless of my views. I thought we were making progress, but sometimes I think I'm the only one trying in this relationship. I can only offer so much wine and cheese.

Love, the Ump.

Good post! Try as we may to get along, coaches always find a way to throw us off track, push our buttons, and then get tossed. Gouda or Swiss, Monsieur?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Don and Canuck have both earned a trip to Ignore Land, to join the other two clowns that have been put there. I hope I don't run out of space there.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Don and Canuck have both earned a trip to Ignore Land, to join the other two clowns that have been put there. I hope I don't run out of space there.

Good news! The more you add, the more space you have!

We should start a thread sharing our ignore lists...

[JRutledge]

Don,

Once again I cannot say it any other way. I do not answer to any coach ever. No coach hired me to work a specific game or work in a particular conference. When I work college games the supervisors I work for expect certain things and when you follow those expectations they continue to hire you. Baseball does not have a lot of umpires to work anytime and anywhere, so if a coach gets upset with an umpire, the supervisor might not have a lot of realistic choices to replace that umpire. Not everyone is available to work a 2:00 game in the afternoon if the coach gets thrown out by a certain umpire.

Don, I have attended multiple college camps for basketball and I did not see one coach evaluating me or deciding who they were going to hire to any of these conferences at the D1, D2, D3 and NAIA level.

Now a supervisor might have a different point of view, but I am not a supervisor. I am only an umpire who knows that I will not be liked or loved every time I step onto a field. I also know there are places I will never go back to because of this fact. I also know that I will be around longer than many of the coaches I see. A coach at the D2 level that I worked multiple times is resigned (and adamantly disagreed with my about a rule application and the supervisor supported me and my partner btw) so I am not going to worry about some guy that in 2 or 3 years might get fired or released from his job.

Also you are overplaying my opinion about coaches. I might not trust or even respect many coaches. That does not mean I will behave unprofessionally and not treat them with a lot of respect. I just know I will not rely on them to have my back or to necessarily be fair when the time presents itself. Also how many times do you know someone has a run in with a customer only to see them a couple of days later? I know that even for our HS playoffs, if a coach has been a jerk to us; it is very possible we will see them in the post season. So I am not getting how this is a business owner/customer relationship. And you can follow the money all you like and coaches also have hire ups they have to answer to as well.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Good news! The more you add, the more space you have!

We should start a thread sharing our ignore lists...

I hope I'm featured on a lot of them, as I want my words only read by the intelligent people on this forum. If you are reading them, you qualify. Unless you're on my ignore list.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Don,

Once again I cannot say it any other way. I do not answer to any coach ever. No coach hired me to work a specific game or work in a particular conference. When I work college games the supervisors I work for expect certain things and when you follow those expectations they continue to hire you. Baseball does not have a lot of umpires to work anytime and anywhere, so if a coach gets upset with an umpire, the supervisor might not have a lot of realistic choices to replace that umpire. Not everyone is available to work a 2:00 game in the afternoon if the coach gets thrown out by a certain umpire.

Don, I have attended multiple college camps for basketball and I did not see one coach evaluating me or deciding who they were going to hire to any of these conferences at the D1, D2, D3 and NAIA level.

Now a supervisor might have a different point of view, but I am not a supervisor. I am only an umpire who knows that I will not be liked or loved every time I step onto a field. I also know there are places I will never go back to because of this fact. I also know that I will be around longer than many of the coaches I see. A coach at the D2 level that I worked multiple times is resigned (and adamantly disagreed with my about a rule application and the supervisor supported me and my partner btw) so I am not going to worry about some guy that in 2 or 3 years might get fired or released from his job.

Peace

We simply have a difference of opinion.
I feel the customer is the one with the money, you feel the customer is the one who filters the money.
It's probably just semantics anyway. I certainly have a responsibility to the assignor but I also have an equal resposibility to the teams.
But always remember
He who has the money has the power.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

We simply have a difference of opinion.
I feel the customer is the one with the money, you feel the customer is the one who filters the money.

If that is the case, then you are responsible to the school board or the administration. That is ultimately where the money comes from right?

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

It's probably just semantics anyway. I certainly have a responsibility to the assignor but I also have an equal resposibility to the teams.

I am responsible to the game not the teams. If the assignor sends me somewhere I am obligated to follow his rules or expectations and philosophies. A coach might want me to do something like let a kid play with illegal equipment and I do not have to answer to any coach for those kinds of things.

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

But always remember
He who has the money has the power.

Wrong again. I have power over myself. If they have power I gave it to them. I have to the power to sit at home and not work at all. And I have never seen a coach that allots the money for their program let alone is responsible for it. When I fill out all the paper work and get a check I do not see the coach's names on the check. As a matter of fact I had a coach this year threaten me that I would not get paid after he was ejected. I still got paid.

Peace

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If that is the case, then you are responsible to the school board or the administration. That is ultimately where the money comes from right?

If you are talking about HS only then the board got it from property tax receipts, Homeowners got it from many and various ways and eventually it all came from a printing press in Denver. I'm not suggesting we are accountable to the US Treasury dept.
But realistically each school has a budget, each sport has a budget and that budget pays for the officials.
It's a line item on the baseball budget

"Umpires" $XXXX

Part of $XXXX ends up in your pocket when you officiate their game

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am responsible to the game not the teams. If the assignor sends me somewhere I am obligated to follow his rules.

No, you're obligated to follow the rules that the league has told the assignor they are playing by and if there is a gray area the league has empowered the assignor to use his discretion.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A coach might want me to do something like let a kid play with illegal equipment and I do not have to answer to any coach for those kinds of things.

The coach, while being a part of the customer organization, does not have authority on his own to change the established rule set that the customer has decided on, which is why you would not change a rule for him.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Wrong again. I have power over myself. If they have power I gave it to them.

agreed

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have to the power to sit at home and not work at all.

Until the bank or landlord show up then try telling them you're in charge

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

No, you're obligated to follow the rules that the league has told the assignor they are playing by and if there is a gray area the league has empowered the assignor to use his discretion.

You lost me on all that other stuff. But my obligation is to the game, which has a set of rules and standards. And ultimately I am obligated more to the state for HS and the NCAA that sets the rules and sets the standards they want from their umpires. Coaches are far down on the list of importance if you ask me. But if you feel everything they do is highly important, that is your right to feel that way.

Peace